Full throttle Electric Supercharger Build Thread

[KoolBRZ]

More importantly, what is possible with a 36 volt setup? I could have easily put 4 batteries in the ESC supplied battery tray. The SHURiKEN's are only 3" wide. How about a liquid-cooled motor with an intercooler up front? How about taking a variable-speed Minn-Kota 36 volt controller, add a recharger circuit and voila, 36 volt supercharging power!

[DAEMANO]

@KoolBRZ and @BRZ-y . I also love the idea of pushing what's possible with the kit. More speed, more power, more MORE!

Importantly though try to keep in mind that Rob's goals have been simplicity, reliability tested & confirmed over months/years of cycles, and affordable prices. He also warranties his product and provides customer support. Some of these ideas may require resource commitments (time, money, labor) beyond Rob's goals. Although IIRC he has been looking into a water jacketed motor. There's nothing stopping users from pushing beyond those goals, just keep your warranty in mind when doing so.

[BRZ-y]

Precisely the point to give KoolBRZ the support to push the limits. Let Rob retain his goals and give others direction to test the waters. That's how we ended up with the Procede controller as a third party add on.
Exciting to see where this is going.

Has anyone relocated the starter battery to the trunk?
http://www.ft86speedfactory.com/xs-p...l#.VpQFa4cihSV

I know the wiring would change drastically......

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

@KoolBRZ and @BRZ-y . I also love the idea of pushing what's possible with the kit. More speed, more power, more MORE!

Importantly though try to keep in mind that Rob's goals have been simplicity, reliability tested & confirmed over months/years of cycles, and affordable prices. He also warranties his product and provides customer support. Some of these ideas may require resource commitments (time, money, labor) beyond Rob's goals. Although IIRC he has been looking into a water jacketed motor. There's nothing stopping users from pushing beyond those goals, just keep your warranty in mind when doing so.

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by BRZ-y

Precisely the point to give KoolBRZ the support to push the limits. Let Rob retain his goals and give others direction to test the waters. That's how we ended up with the Procede controller as a third party add on.
Exciting to see where this is going.

Has anyone relocated the starter battery to the trunk?
http://www.ft86speedfactory.com/xs-p...l#.VpQFa4cihSV

I know the wiring would change drastically......

Not to speak for him, but I think there's a line Rob has to walk with supporting community mods as some customers can be easily confused and think a mod that has been supported is also supported by the manufacturer. I don't think of the Phantom kit as open source per say, it just had a very communicative dev and integration team.

The PROcede integration wasn't so much a community member "testing the waters" (ala the great work that Kool is doing). Instead it was an integration by @Shiv@Openflash supported by Rob and Shiv's business relationship. Rob has even since updated the wiring in his most recent kits to support the PROcede. Earlier @Sojhinn did travel to Norcal for install/configuration/testing and also generously donates his time for support which may have given it more of a community feel.

About relocating the starter battery: This can definitely be done. @Shiv@Openflash and @Target70 have both done it (and maybe another in this thread):

Target70's homebrew DIY (pre-ESC) - http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69409

Shiv's mention of relocating to run more batteries for the ESC - http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1653722

[Sojhinn]

I also want to put this out there:

If you are in Southern California and installing a procede controller please message me. I want to update my install video.


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[stevo585]

Originally Posted by BRZ-y

It's really fun to see @KoolBRZ pushing this setup. @fenton maybe Rob can take some time to chat with KoolBRZ to go in a direction that he maybe hasn't tried yet. I know there is a lot of interest to see the upper limits of this system.
Of course, the purpose of the ESC is cost / power ratio
with ease of use and install in mind. But we all want to know what these things are capable of. What are some of the expensive battery setups that Rob has dismissed as cost prohibitive?

I too would like to know the best possible battery setup money being no option. Its likely an ultra capacitor type setup imo. Considering the substantial voltage drop I don't think we are at the limit yet of "too much capacity".

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by stevo585

I too would like to know the best possible battery setup money being no option. Its likely an ultra capacitor type setup imo. Considering the substantial voltage drop I don't think we are at the limit yet of "too much capacity".

Good questions!

There was a forum member @neutron256 that went really far into trying to build an open-source ESC. A dedicated, capable, and very smart guy he worked for over a year on this project (the thread lasted 15 months). He ruled out Supercaps/Ultracaps but wasn't specific as to why (read here http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...&postcount=170 ). His thread should be required reading for ESC enthusiats as it really illustrates just how complicated putting together a functional, reliable, and powerful ESC really is. http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41148 .




Ultimately there's a difference between what's possible and what's been tested and approved by Rob. Anyone is free to test whatever battery setup they like at their own risk. I think Shiv tested this behemoth (or something like it a lil while back)


Yes, that's a $1300 battery. http://www.lithiumion-batteries.com/...on-battery.php Problem is, adding $1300 to $1800 kit price and the Phantom loses its' cost/performance advantage to a home installed turbo at 10 psi. This is the game.

Since were talking hypotheticals @ cost no option, why stop at 24 volts, how about 36? For the low-low price of $4100 and possibly a cooked controller, you can plug this beast in. http://www.lithiumion-batteries.com/...attery-kit.php . Ok so then let's just upgrade the controller and recharge mechanisms. How much are we at now? Answer: Lots.

Fun!


Really though, Rob is years ahead of anyone in the aftermarket on this because of his engineering, machining, and motorsports experience that drive his component selection, custom component fabrication, motor controls, and design decisions. Add a small army of users providing feedback to the years of R&D he's put in and wow. So then there's Shiv's input that even further widened the gap in the aftermarket. This is not to say that the kit can't/shouldn't be improved, but that many of the ideas I've come across since getting into this back in 2013 he has already vetted. Yes, the documentation needs regular updates, and this forum has done well to help keep things together. I'm no fanboy, but when looking at years of someone doing their best in their field of expertise it's hard not to be impressed.

[carma143]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

Yes, that's a $1300 battery.

I'm curious. How much boost would this baby provide, theoretically? Maybe 2 of them in parallel?

[stevo585]

Well I guess I'll stick to the big cranks and the odyssey then

[BRZ-y]

Dang! 30lbs a piece?!?! I thought li-ion batteries were supposed to be light???

I saw a thread, can't find it right now, someone spent $900 on a replacement Li-ion starter battery because it only weighed 5 lbs. I guess that's as cheap as a dry carbon hood.... Their website said it could not be used in parallel. Is this a Li-ion limitation? or just that battery.

But yes, spending $2600 on batteries doesn't make this product cost effective.
BUT IF!! the future of ESCs could put out 7-10 lbs of boost with essentially no parasitic loss and instantaneous spool available at 2500rpms (not that a stock motor could handle that)....... then even if it is $6000, you would be hard pressed to get comparable amount of room under the torque curve at that price. You'd be spending more on strengthening the motor etc.
Curious to see where this leads! I know cost comparison to other FI applications is part of the game. But this is new territory that deserves exploration.

I'm stoked we get to be part of it, and happy with Rob's conservative nature, releasing reliable products and not blowing up customers motors for speculative research.

Originally Posted by carma143

I'm curious. How much boost would this baby provide, theoretically? Maybe 2 of them in parallel?

[KoolBRZ]

Third report on the SHURiKEN battery setup. The big crank battery passes the overnight OFT test! My car started up just fine with the OFT left on overnight. This battery setup is an improvement over the 2 big cranks and one Optima setup. I will be testing out new Procede maps to take advantage of the new batteries next, and will keep the rest of you posted.

[brilthor]

Originally Posted by KoolBRZ

I like the responsiveness of the SHURiKEN batteries. They snap back to full charge really quickly,

Considering that the charging circuitry hasn't been changed doesn't this imply that your capacity has just been reduced, or that they are particularly susceptible to voltage drop under load?

I'd be interested in knowing how they compare during discharge, how quickly the voltage bottoms out, how many Wh it expends before bottoming and how long it takes to bottom out. Is there any way to capture a voltage/current/time plot with the systems for a empirical comparison between setups.

[stevo585]

Originally Posted by KoolBRZ

Third report on the SHURiKEN battery setup. The big crank battery passes the overnight OFT test! My car started up just fine with the OFT left on overnight. This battery setup is an improvement over the 2 big cranks and one Optima setup. I will be testing out new Procede maps to take advantage of the new batteries next, and will keep the rest of you posted.

An improvement over the 2 big cranks in what way? More butt dyno power?

[jaorocks1]

So....on e85 and ive got a cold start one shouldn't push the gas pedal to help start the car I'm guessing? This would then make the ESC go off right?