(2015) 200+ Treadwear Autocross Street Tire Thread

[Shark_Bait88]

Originally Posted by Traum

Realistically speaking in your case (and please don't be offended because I have no intention do offend), if you are planning to run 225/45/17 tires, you are not going to win over the guys running wider tires / more fully prepared cars even if you opt for the grippiest tire. IMO, you'd be better off picking up something that is more durable for HPDE use -- ie. R-S3 v2 or Z2**, and not worry about burning through your tires too quickly.

That's a great point, and I'm certainly not offended.

Yeah, I knew when I got the 17x8s I'd have a tough time competing against cars with 17x9s and better prep than me. Especially since I don't have a header and tune yet, although I might end up with those part way through the season.

In Chicago Region I might be alright, as consistent STX participation is rather slim. I have a chance to place just by showing up to all the events and driving decently enough. But running somewhere like Milwaukee Region I will have a very tough time, as there are some well-prepped STX cars being driven by very talented folks.

[qoncept]

Originally Posted by renfield90

The big concern is these new tires are very soft and you'll heat cycle out the compound before you run out of tread. At the very least consider picking up a second set of stock wheels for super cheap in the classifieds and get used to swapping before/after events. Otherwise IMO the price isn't worth it for the 3-4 events you will have grip.

I got sick of changing tires and being the last person to leave the parking lot at our events and I was really excited about the new street tire rules last year. I think I'm going to go ahead and do either RE71Rs or Rivals - would the 'stones heat cycle out faster? My RS3s totally fell flat right before they corded.

[Jawnathin]

Originally Posted by qoncept

I got sick of changing tires and being the last person to leave the parking lot at our events and I was really excited about the new street tire rules last year. I think I'm going to go ahead and do either RE71Rs or Rivals - would the 'stones heat cycle out faster? My RS3s totally fell flat right before they corded.

You said your 86 is a second car, right?

Mine is primarily an autocross car as I have another DD. I leave the RE71Rs on the car and drive to and from events on them. I don't DD it, so I don't worry about the heat cycles.

I think that is OK. I wouldn't waste them driving back and forth to work though.

[icybrzzz]

Originally Posted by Traum

Realistically speaking in your case (and please don't be offended because I have no intention do offend), if you are planning to run 225/45/17 tires, you are not going to win over the guys running wider tires / more fully prepared cars even if you opt for the grippiest tire. IMO, you'd be better off picking up something that is more durable for HPDE use -- ie. R-S3 v2 or Z2**, and not worry about burning through your tires too quickly.

Don't mean to threadjack but I'd thought I would ask for your opinion. Planning on taking my car to some open lapping days this upcoming season. I've been reading up about the RE71r and I thought this was the go to tire, till I realized it is an auto x tire.

I will be running the stock primacy's for the first few track days to see what I can could do with em. I would like to get a better set of tires for the stock wheel setup for the summer tho. I had my eyes set on 3 tires in the 215/45/17 size:

Hankook RS3 v2
Bridgestone RE71R
Advan AD08R

Originally I was planning to DD the new rubber but I could just get another set of stockers to DD with like mentioned above. I'll only be do open lapping sessions and nothing competitive this season. I do want the best tire I could get regardless tho. For longer stints of course

[Traum]

Hey Icybrzzz,

It sounds to me like you are relatively new to the HPDE game. So if that is the case, I completely agree with you in just trying things out with the stock Primacy tires. As bad as people seem to claim they are, I actually found the stockers to be quite acceptable in the dry even for HPDE use. You just have to be aware of their limits and drive them within what they are capable of doing.

With the way the loonie has been tanking, I'd actually recommend you to go for the RE-71R. For some reason, Costco (Canada) has been selling them for dirt cheap prices at the moment -- they are Cdn$146.99/tire, and you just can't get that anywhere at all. They are literally a screaming bargain. I suspect Costco will eventually smarten up and adjust the price so that it is more inline with our loonie-dollar exchange rate. But until they do, I wouldn't bother considering the other tires.

As an additional suggestion -- is your car modded at all? If it isn't, I'd wholeheartedly recommend you to pick up some camber bolts and get an alignment done to max out your front (negative) camber. The cost of the camber bolts would more than pay for itself when you aren't killing the tires' outer shoulders at the track.

[DocWalt]

RE71R is not a tire that will be ideal over long stints. There are people using them in Chumpcar with success, but generally only on cars that are VERY over tired.

I'll be using RE71Rs this year and DDing them and doing at least a couple of track events on them. I'm budgeting for a mid-season replacement though, or maybe just using the Primacies on track events. I drove my GTI a lot of miles this summer on RE71Rs with no noticeable drop off in performance. That said I only got ~25 autocross runs on them spread out over 5 months because the car kept breaking...

I've done two track days (2 hours of track time each day) with essentially no abnormal wear from the Primacies. I did more damage to them autocrossing and I wasn't taking it easy on track. They're no actually that bad considering what they're designed for.

[Jawnathin]

If you want a 'good but not great' at everything tire, I would probably do something like a Z2 Star Spec or RS3. Good enough for street, autocross, and track, but not particularly great at any of them. The RE71Rs are perfect for autocross but I think just too sticky for a street tire and will overheat too quickly as a track tire.

If you have the budget for another set of wheels, I would get something like the Nitto NT01 for the track. They are good enough to drive to and from the track, just put em on before the track day. Once the event is over, swap back to your DD tires.

[icybrzzz]

Originally Posted by Traum

Hey Icybrzzz,

It sounds to me like you are relatively new to the HPDE game. So if that is the case, I completely agree with you in just trying things out with the stock Primacy tires. As bad as people seem to claim they are, I actually found the stockers to be quite acceptable in the dry even for HPDE use. You just have to be aware of their limits and drive them within what they are capable of doing.

With the way the loonie has been tanking, I'd actually recommend you to go for the RE-71R. For some reason, Costco (Canada) has been selling them for dirt cheap prices at the moment -- they are Cdn$146.99/tire, and you just can't get that anywhere at all. They are literally a screaming bargain. I suspect Costco will eventually smarten up and adjust the price so that it is more inline with our loonie-dollar exchange rate. But until they do, I wouldn't bother considering the other tires.

As an additional suggestion -- is your car modded at all? If it isn't, I'd wholeheartedly recommend you to pick up some camber bolts and get an alignment done to max out your front (negative) camber. The cost of the camber bolts would more than pay for itself when you aren't killing the tires' outer shoulders at the track.

I will have to look into that at my local costco. That is $31/tire cheaper than any site i've checked to date!

In terms of mods, mostly bolt ons:

JDL UEL header
Grimmspeed CAI
OFT with stage 2 UEL map
Nameless 2.5" track pipe (axleback)

Regarding the camber bolts, yes I'll be picking up a set of those as well with possibly the SPC rear LCA to get my alignment in check before I hit the track. I'm more just doing research now so that when I am ready to upgrade I have something in mind. I do want to track the Primacy's just because from the street driving I've done this past summer, they seem like a pretty good tire. It also seems like EVERYONE has been telling me to burn through the primacy's first to learn the car and THEN upgrade to something better

Thanks for the quick responses guys

EDIT*

Just checked the costco website and they indeed are going for $147/tire! At that price you guys think I should try these out? That is hands down the cheapest quote I got on any of the tires I'm interested in.

[strat61caster]

Fwiw my next DD/HPDE tire will likely be RS3, was really happy with the z2ss as an all rounder and only a few HPDE groups hand out trophies, I'd rather a tire I can beat on all day than something I have to manage and optimize, those days are for fun and seat time over setting a track record imo.

Maybe I'll try the 71rs at a track day but I think that will come near the end of their life someone next year, they may not be of interest to anyone anymore by then, tire tech is a fickle thing.

[renfield90]

Originally Posted by qoncept

I got sick of changing tires and being the last person to leave the parking lot at our events and I was really excited about the new street tire rules last year. I think I'm going to go ahead and do either RE71Rs or Rivals - would the 'stones heat cycle out faster? My RS3s totally fell flat right before they corded.

I went very srs bsns last year and changed tires at the event. You can cheese it though and change tires the day before/after the event. Sometimes I'd leave them mounted if I had events on back to back weekends but I'd try not to drive much during the week (being walking distance to work helps).

It's obviously up to you to do what you want but you're going to have a very similar experience as with your RS3s if your new tires do double duty, except this new gen of tires is much more expensive and doesn't last as long.

I buy tires so I can win events, not to hit 1.2g turning into the grocery store.

[Silver Ignition]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Nationals results, seems like the Bridgestones are favored:
http://cdn.growassets.net/user_files...pdf?1444922039

Just regurgitating information I've picked up, I'd only DD the tires (71/Rival) if you expect them to be totally done at the end of the year and buying fresh for next year. I know a guy who said he toasted his 71R's after just 2 months, but he's in an AMG he autocrosses rather exuberantly, I've also heard that they're really only good for a few flying laps at track days before they get too hot and lose grip. Haven't heard nearly as much about the BFG's.

If you're not super competitive I'd 'step down' a level to the less grippy, more durable street friendly options in the RS3's or ZIISS. My Direzzas are at 15k miles, ~60 autox runs, and 3x track days. The grip is probably gone but they've got tread left and I'm still having fun on them, they'll be my DD tires for a few more months and probably see a dozen runs and a track day before I toss them.

I'm picking up a set of RE71R's on another set of wheels for dedicated autox use, someone else posted they got 200+ runs out of them, and I've heard elsewhere that they're good until the tread is gone, maybe not as fast as when they're fresher but still capable.

Originally Posted by Traum

Following up on strat61caster's post, I'd like to add a couple of things:

1) Especially when it comes to US Nat results, always take it with a grain of salt. Lincoln is very much a unique place, and a lot of times, it bears little / no resemblance to your own event settings. US Nat is almost always very hot. The lot is hard, grippy concrete. Surface conditions are often crazy and varies dramatically even within the same run group. Especially if you run mostly on asphalt, Lincoln results may or may not be relevant to your usage.

2) Independent testing is both time consuming and expensive. As a result, a certain amount of herd mentality exist in the autox world. Keep that in mind when you make any purchasing decisions.

Having said that, I agree with strat61caster in that you probably wouldn't want to DD an RE-71R or Rival S. Mount them on dedicated wheels, and maybe at most drive on them to and from the event.

Another point to consider is, how competitive are you in our local events? If you are vying for a spot on the pointy end of the game, you are literally setting yourself up for failure if you do not go for the top tire (71R or Rival S). On the other hand, if you are happy playing in the bottom 2/3's of the pack, pick up one of the other longer lasting tires as strat61caster has suggested.

Thanks for the detailed responses, I'm definitely not gonna be happy with bottom 2/3 of the pack, as I spent the last two years there getting used to the car and getting everything dialed in. Last two local events I finished 8th and then 3rd at the season closer so I definitely want to build upon that. I'm not quite ready for Nats but I'd like to play at one or two Pro Solo events this year and see how I stack up against real STX cars and drivers.


Maybe a second set of wheels is the way to go...

[renfield90]

Originally Posted by Silver Ignition

I'm not quite ready for Nats but I'd like to play at one or two Pro Solo events this year and see how I stack up against real STX cars and drivers.

If you can drink beer you are ready for nats.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Silver Ignition

Maybe a second set of wheels is the way to go...

Don't get me wrong, I think you can DD on the RE71R's, I just think they'll be toast by the end of the season and if you're real close with someone on fresh tires while you're DD'ing and they're using a second set they'll start to pull away from you mid season (unless you're improving your skills to compensate and they're stagnant, but that's unlikely) and the last few months will be sketchy in the wintertime.

Originally Posted by renfield90

If you can drink beer you are ready for nats.

Shit, I'm a teetotaler...

[Silver Ignition]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Don't get me wrong, I think you can DD on the RE71R's, I just think they'll be toast by the end of the season and if you're real close with someone on fresh tires while you're DD'ing and they're using a second set they'll start to pull away from you mid season (unless you're improving your skills to compensate and they're stagnant, but that's unlikely) and the last few months will be sketchy in the wintertime.



Shit, I'm a teetotaler...

I guess I'll give the DD/AutoX thing a try with RE-71r. This summer was nice so I put 6500 miles on the bike as my daily, here's hoping for more of the same this year...