(2015) 200+ Treadwear Autocross Street Tire Thread

[Model Citizen]

Originally Posted by 48Spoons

The RE71s do pretty well in the heat, but definitely like being cool in my experince. Ran them with a co-driver at an event and we were double spraying and it made a world of difference. Though don't seem to need as much spraying as the previous ZIIs did. As it warms up more (I'm in NE) we'll see how it goes.

both of you are bastards

[RedBRZ80]

Originally Posted by SeanRTR

Test a new set against an old set for an actual delta on the watch, and I'll send you $6 via paypal.

I just happen to have a fresh set of RE71rs.. So that might happen..

[Rampage]

Looks like the Bridgestones dominate most everywhere else but the Rivals S is more than competitive at Lincoln.

[Silver Ignition]

So RE-71R or Rival S? What's everyone using? Anyone know of any new tires being released this year?


Most of my AutoX is on asphalt with very little happening on concrete. Ambient temps range from 55*F-85*F throughout the season. Typically 6-8 runs per event, typically 10 events per season means I'll put about 60-80 runs, plus roughly 12,000 street miles (commute on a bike in the summer).


I got about 15,000 miles, a track day, plus roughly 50-65 AutoX runs out of my Bridgestone RE-11's with about 4/32" to spare. I have been happy with the RE-11's so far...

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Silver Ignition

So RE-71R or Rival S? What's everyone using? Anyone know of any new tires being released this year?


Most of my AutoX is on asphalt with very little happening on concrete. Ambient temps range from 55*F-85*F throughout the season. Typically 6-8 runs per event, typically 10 events per season means I'll put about 60-80 runs, plus roughly 12,000 street miles (commute on a bike in the summer).


I got about 15,000 miles, a track day, plus roughly 50-65 AutoX runs out of my Bridgestone RE-11's with about 4/32" to spare. I have been happy with the RE-11's so far...

Nationals results, seems like the Bridgestones are favored:
http://cdn.growassets.net/user_files...pdf?1444922039

Just regurgitating information I've picked up, I'd only DD the tires (71/Rival) if you expect them to be totally done at the end of the year and buying fresh for next year. I know a guy who said he toasted his 71R's after just 2 months, but he's in an AMG he autocrosses rather exuberantly, I've also heard that they're really only good for a few flying laps at track days before they get too hot and lose grip. Haven't heard nearly as much about the BFG's.

If you're not super competitive I'd 'step down' a level to the less grippy, more durable street friendly options in the RS3's or ZIISS. My Direzzas are at 15k miles, ~60 autox runs, and 3x track days. The grip is probably gone but they've got tread left and I'm still having fun on them, they'll be my DD tires for a few more months and probably see a dozen runs and a track day before I toss them.

I'm picking up a set of RE71R's on another set of wheels for dedicated autox use, someone else posted they got 200+ runs out of them, and I've heard elsewhere that they're good until the tread is gone, maybe not as fast as when they're fresher but still capable.

[Jawnathin]

I have no direct experience with the Rival S but have driven the RE71R on a few different cars. I think the consensus is that both are very good but the RE71R is considered just a hair better. I don't 100% recall exactly why, but I think I heard the RE71Rs does turn in a bit better and a little more forgiving. Anecdotes aside, both are very competitive and you can win on either tire.

Rival S does seem to come in larger sizes than the RE71R, but that isn't a problem for us. I also think BFG has a better contingency program than Bridgestone.

[Traum]

Following up on strat61caster's post, I'd like to add a couple of things:

1) Especially when it comes to US Nat results, always take it with a grain of salt. Lincoln is very much a unique place, and a lot of times, it bears little / no resemblance to your own event settings. US Nat is almost always very hot. The lot is hard, grippy concrete. Surface conditions are often crazy and varies dramatically even within the same run group. Especially if you run mostly on asphalt, Lincoln results may or may not be relevant to your usage.

2) Independent testing is both time consuming and expensive. As a result, a certain amount of herd mentality exist in the autox world. Keep that in mind when you make any purchasing decisions.

Having said that, I agree with strat61caster in that you probably wouldn't want to DD an RE-71R or Rival S. Mount them on dedicated wheels, and maybe at most drive on them to and from the event.

Another point to consider is, how competitive are you in our local events? If you are vying for a spot on the pointy end of the game, you are literally setting yourself up for failure if you do not go for the top tire (71R or Rival S). On the other hand, if you are happy playing in the bottom 2/3's of the pack, pick up one of the other longer lasting tires as strat61caster has suggested.

[Shark_Bait88]

I'm currently debating about an HPDE/autox combination tire that will be mounted to a dedicated set of 17x8 RPF1s. The ZIISS has been the top contender so far, mainly because of track capabilities and longevity.

I've read a few posts of people saying that grip with 71Rs drops off pretty quick, 3 laps or so, on a track day. Essentially making it a tire really only suitable to autox. Has anyone else heard much about 71Rs performance at track days?

I'd obviously prefer to have the stickier tire when I do autox, but if it means eating through them fast at track days I'd prefer something that will last for awhile longer when subjected to about 3-6 track days and a season of autocross run with 1-2 different organizations.

[qoncept]

I suppose I'm ready to start thinking about what's going to happen when the car comes back out of the garage this spring. I effectively just have a front sway bar and crash bolts now and no intention of spending money on anything other than tires. Good enough locally. Buuut....

I daily drive on my autox tires. I had RS3s last year and did very well, but fell flat when more and more RE71Rs showed up. I've been planning all along to buy them this spring, but the comments about daily driving them above have me doubting a little bit. Is the concern about getting stuck somewhere with corded tires or running the life out of them? It's a second car and I'm not worried about having it down a week if I need to order tires, and I was alright with the RS3s being garbage when it's cold or wet.

[Jawnathin]

Originally Posted by Shark_Bait88

I'm currently debating about an HPDE/autox combination tire that will be mounted to a dedicated set of 17x8 RPF1s. The ZIISS has been the top contender so far, mainly because of track capabilities and longevity.

I've read a few posts of people saying that grip with 71Rs drops off pretty quick, 3 laps or so, on a track day. Essentially making it a tire really only suitable to autox. Has anyone else heard much about 71Rs performance at track days?

I'd obviously prefer to have the stickier tire when I do autox, but if it means eating through them fast at track days I'd prefer something that will last for awhile longer when subjected to about 3-6 track days and a season of autocross run with 1-2 different organizations.

Saw this earlier today. Not very scientific and its possible the cooler whether and short 5 lap test wasn't enough to overheat the tires, but in this test the RE71R did very well.

http://www.prima-racing.com/bridgest...king-part-two/

[Traum]

What tire size are you planning to run on the 17x8 wheels? IMO, if you are only going with a 8" wide wheel, the widest tire you'd want is 235, and the FRS can easily swallow up tires up to 255 with the right offset. So you might want to look into a 17x9 wheel instead.

I am not at home with my GRM collection right now, but Andy Hollis and GRM did a track test in 2015 with the current hot 200TW tires. IIRC, his findings where the flyer lap comes early. Once the tire gets overheated, it loses the ability to deal with compound loading -- ie. multi-tasking on both lateral and longitudinal duties. The tire also seems to wear 20 - 30% faster than other 200TW tires.

Your best bet is to look that issue up.

Originally Posted by Shark_Bait88

I'm currently debating about an HPDE/autox combination tire that will be mounted to a dedicated set of 17x8 RPF1s. The ZIISS has been the top contender so far, mainly because of track capabilities and longevity.

I've read a few posts of people saying that grip with 71Rs drops off pretty quick, 3 laps or so, on a track day. Essentially making it a tire really only suitable to autox. Has anyone else heard much about 71Rs performance at track days?

I'd obviously prefer to have the stickier tire when I do autox, but if it means eating through them fast at track days I'd prefer something that will last for awhile longer when subjected to about 3-6 track days and a season of autocross run with 1-2 different organizations.

[renfield90]

Originally Posted by qoncept

I suppose I'm ready to start thinking about what's going to happen when the car comes back out of the garage this spring. I effectively just have a front sway bar and crash bolts now and no intention of spending money on anything other than tires. Good enough locally. Buuut....

I daily drive on my autox tires. I had RS3s last year and did very well, but fell flat when more and more RE71Rs showed up. I've been planning all along to buy them this spring, but the comments about daily driving them above have me doubting a little bit. Is the concern about getting stuck somewhere with corded tires or running the life out of them? It's a second car and I'm not worried about having it down a week if I need to order tires, and I was alright with the RS3s being garbage when it's cold or wet.

The big concern is these new tires are very soft and you'll heat cycle out the compound before you run out of tread. At the very least consider picking up a second set of stock wheels for super cheap in the classifieds and get used to swapping before/after events. Otherwise IMO the price isn't worth it for the 3-4 events you will have grip.

My Rival S set was good to the cords - literally set top index as cords began to show - but the set saw under 100 street miles before nationals and maybe an additional 400 miles before death.

If you are not on the new stuff you will always be second best. I watched a lot of top guys in my region fall to midpack before they realized this.

[Shark_Bait88]

Originally Posted by Traum

What tire size are you planning to run on the 17x8 wheels? IMO, if you are only going with a 8" wide wheel, the widest tire you'd want is 235, and the FRS can easily swallow up tires up to 255 with the right offset. So you might want to look into a 17x9 wheel instead.

I am not at home with my GRM collection right now, but Andy Hollis and GRM did a track test in 2015 with the current hot 200TW tires. IIRC, his findings where the flyer lap comes early. Once the tire gets overheated, it loses the ability to deal with compound loading -- ie. multi-tasking on both lateral and longitudinal duties. The tire also seems to wear 20 - 30% faster than other 200TW tires.

Your best bet is to look that issue up.

I'll be running a 225/45 most likely. I already ended up with a set of 17x8 RPF1s, got them in pretty good condition for $600 from a buddy. So the deal was tough to pass up. I know 17x9 probably would have been a better choice, but I'm not all that worried about it.

Yeah, the wear is my biggest concern with either the 71Rs or Rival S. If I can make it through one year of autox and some track days on them I'd be happy, but it sounds like a lot of people with 71Rs have seen very significant wear after about 4 HPDEs. Even if I only did 3 events, the minimum number of track days I have planned, there's still a full season of autox with Chicago Region and the occasional autox's with several other organizations in the area.

[Traum]

Realistically speaking in your case (and please don't be offended because I have no intention do offend), if you are planning to run 225/45/17 tires, you are not going to win over the guys running wider tires / more fully prepared cars even if you opt for the grippiest tire. IMO, you'd be better off picking up something that is more durable for HPDE use -- ie. R-S3 v2 or Z2**, and not worry about burning through your tires too quickly.

Originally Posted by Shark_Bait88

I'll be running a 225/45 most likely. I already ended up with a set of 17x8 RPF1s, got them in pretty good condition for $600 from a buddy. So the deal was tough to pass up. I know 17x9 probably would have been a better choice, but I'm not all that worried about it.

Yeah, the wear is my biggest concern with either the 71Rs or Rival S. If I can make it through one year of autox and some track days on them I'd be happy, but it sounds like a lot of people with 71Rs have seen very significant wear after about 4 HPDEs. Even if I only did 3 events, the minimum number of track days I have planned, there's still a full season of autox with Chicago Region and the occasional autox's with several other organizations in the area.