Supercharger or Turbocharger for AutoX, and Track

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by FRS Justin

CSG Mike,


With you specializing in track driving I'm sure you know exactly what feels right and wrong. I don't have any experience tracking a car so I will take your word on it. I would be a fool to tell you I know what it's like coming out of a race track corner and how to apply the power. I have seen various professional Rally drivers run turbos but that is another type of racing so I would assume things might not work the same in what you do.
Anyway:


I would like to wish you and your family a very Merry Christmas.

Well, I can give you an every-day example.

Lets say you're going around one of those cloverleaf freeway onramps, and are in the mood for some brisk cornering speeds.

With a supercharger, you can slowly squeeze the throttle until you get the exact amount of power you want. It's just like having a larger engine.

With a turbo, you will most likely (with bad results):
- squeeze the throttle more and more, waiting for the desired amount of power, and then suddenly have too much
- squeeze the throttle some, but not completely, anticipating the turbo to spool, so you eventually have the exact power you want

Less likely (but perfectly good results):
- squeeze the throttle a lot (maybe completely), and lift off partially as the turbo spools, to precisely modulate the throttle for the exact amount of power you want (but remember, if you lift too much, your BOV actuates, or you reduce output too much, and have to re-spool your now de-spooled turbo)
- Squeeze the throttle a lot and let your aftermarket traction control do it's thing.

[cdrazic93]

A well thought out kit with a sized turbo will do great with the stock CR and everyday driving, granted what CSG mike implies is that you may need to alter your driving style if you arent used to turbo cars, or more accurately, a boosted 86 dyno plot.

[FRS Justin]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Well, I can give you an every-day example.

Lets say you're going around one of those cloverleaf freeway onramps, and are in the mood for some brisk cornering speeds.

With a supercharger, you can slowly squeeze the throttle until you get the exact amount of power you want. It's just like having a larger engine.

With a turbo, you will most likely (with bad results):
- squeeze the throttle more and more, waiting for the desired amount of power, and then suddenly have too much
- squeeze the throttle some, but not completely, anticipating the turbo to spool, so you eventually have the exact power you want

Less likely (but perfectly good results):
- squeeze the throttle a lot (maybe completely), and lift off partially as the turbo spools, to precisely modulate the throttle for the exact amount of power you want (but remember, if you lift too much, your BOV actuates, or you reduce output too much, and have to re-spool your now de-spooled turbo)
- Squeeze the throttle a lot and let your aftermarket traction control do it's thing.

Got it because if I try to ease into the power on my car it will cross 3 three lanes of traffic and take out the bus full of orphans and nuns guaranteed. I guess I need a driving lesson on the track. If I drive I will make sure my insurance limits are maxxed if you drive I will bring a new pair of pants.

[FRS Justin]

Originally Posted by cdrazic93

A well thought out kit with a sized turbo will do great with the stock CR and everyday driving, granted what CSG mike implies is that you may need to alter your driving style if you arent used to turbo cars, or more accurately, a boosted 86 dyno plot.

I'm familiar with a boosted fa20, mine makes 644Whp and 521wtq. I first have to get some driving style lol I just pin it when in doubt.

[Deep Six]

Originally Posted by Dr. BRZ

As the title says, i need help deciding which is best for autox and tracking. the brz is also my dd. if you think a supercharger is best which kits do you suggest and vice versa with the turbocharger. i want to get instant power coming out of a turn. give reasons please, i need input!

Thought it would help reprinting the original question as a reminder that it specifically pertains to aftermarket choices for this chassis.


I've known from the beginning that I would be going the FI route eventually and I wanted to be sure I made a reliable choice to sustain through 20 or so track days per year in the Southeast. My original thought was the Jackson Racing kit made the most sense and I spent the last year considering other alternatives including low mount turbo kits.


In the end my first instinct was right for me and I just received the high boost JR kit. These are the reasons for my decision

• Proven reliability in hot climates being driven aggressively (thanks Mike)
• More than enough power to meet my performance targets
• Linear power delivery (can only be appreciated through experience not theory)

I have enjoyed the car immensely so far but I am beyond excited about the upcoming track season with 300+ to play with!

[Northwest86]

Awesome. You should have alot of fun with that. The moral of the story is get what you are going to enjoy. Even though a turbo is better.

[nova.86]

I'm wondering, with a turbo kit, what parts of the engine are best to upgrade so you don't have things breaking in the future or causing stress? I don't know a lot about engines internally but I've heard you'll need upgraded fuel injectors, forged rods & pistons. Of course this all depends on how much boost psi. Say for a stage 2 turbokit running 9 psi or 12. Tracking the car (4 times a year or something) and also a DD commuter. What should be upgraded for the longevity of the vehicle? Would there be a need for upgraded parts of the turbo kit eventually? Like a more efficient aftermarket radiator or something? I'm just wondering. I plan on going FI in the future after I do exhaust + headers tune and tires + wheels + suspension work. I'm planning on doing brakes the same time as the turbo for stopping power with the increased HP.

[Trefoil]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Well, I can give you an every-day example.

Lets say you're going around one of those cloverleaf freeway onramps, and are in the mood for some brisk cornering speeds.

With a supercharger, you can slowly squeeze the throttle until you get the exact amount of power you want. It's just like having a larger engine.

With a turbo, you will most likely (with bad results):
- squeeze the throttle more and more, waiting for the desired amount of power, and then suddenly have too much
- squeeze the throttle some, but not completely, anticipating the turbo to spool, so you eventually have the exact power you want

Less likely (but perfectly good results):
- squeeze the throttle a lot (maybe completely), and lift off partially as the turbo spools, to precisely modulate the throttle for the exact amount of power you want (but remember, if you lift too much, your BOV actuates, or you reduce output too much, and have to re-spool your now de-spooled turbo)
- Squeeze the throttle a lot and let your aftermarket traction control do it's thing.

That hits (pun intended) a little close to home having come from Turbo MR2. Liftoff oversteer after hard acceleration on a short wheelbase is not fun when you're trying to merge onto the freeway next to a semi. Went clear across 3 lanes, into a guardrail butt first. My only hangup on SC is the power loss from 6k feet upwards and my original question was just to check if something had not changed with these modern SC kits.

For the majority of people who are not drag racing their cars or dealing with the issues associated with altitude, SC will likely be the easiest way to gain power without overloading the engine internals (like our famously thin piston rods).

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by nova.86

I'm wondering, with a turbo kit, what parts of the engine are best to upgrade so you don't have things breaking in the future or causing stress? I don't know a lot about engines internally but I've heard you'll need upgraded fuel injectors, forged rods & pistons. Of course this all depends on how much boost psi. Say for a stage 2 turbokit running 9 psi or 12. Tracking the car (4 times a year or something) and also a DD commuter. What should be upgraded for the longevity of the vehicle? Would there be a need for upgraded parts of the turbo kit eventually? Like a more efficient aftermarket radiator or something? I'm just wondering. I plan on going FI in the future after I do exhaust + headers tune and tires + wheels + suspension work. I'm planning on doing brakes the same time as the turbo for stopping power with the increased HP.

Cooling and heat shielding.

I wouldn't recommend running ANY turbo at 12 psi on track, unless you have a significant budget. If the word budget even comes to mind, that's going to be a risky proposition.

Get your supporting mods first, and then get the turbo kit.

Brakes + cooling, and then turbo. Going the other way around is a recipe for disaster at the track. Too much cooling and brakes = you'll go home and drive another day. Not enough cooling or brakes = bad things happen.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Trefoil

That hits (pun intended) a little close to home having come from Turbo MR2. Liftoff oversteer after hard acceleration on a short wheelbase is not fun when you're trying to merge onto the freeway next to a semi. Went clear across 3 lanes, into a guardrail butt first. My only hangup on SC is the power loss from 6k feet upwards and my original question was just to check if something had not changed with these modern SC kits.

For the majority of people who are not drag racing their cars or dealing with the issues associated with altitude, SC will likely be the easiest way to gain power without overloading the engine internals (like our famously thin piston rods).

Well, Ecutek can control an electronic boost controller set up with a supercharger...

Just how a turbo without a wastegate or boost controller will just keep increasing boost, you just set up the SC for the SC's maximum, and then drop the boost to your desired amount with the EBC. You can, theoretically, have a turbo car's powerband with supercharger thermal management.

This particularly works well if you can stuff a giant centrifugal unit Unfortunately it's a bit cost prohibitive to do with something like the Edelbrock, since you have to modify or replace the manifold.