Motor Blew Last Night

[makesdrivingfunagain]

Originally Posted by Justin.b

There's really no conservative way to do aftermarket turbo or supercharger on a factory engine running 12.5:1 compression.

My engine blew without boost in normal street driving, and there are a lot more people who had had these engines fail in normal operation without boost. If you're not comfortable with blowing things up and rebuilding them from scratch then you should definitely avoid bolting on boost.

-Justin

I would agree with much of this statement.
I have heard qualified, people state "the faster you go the more they blow" And, usually you will lose reliability when adding much power (more shop time) for the average driver/enthusiast. Usually when people add 50 Plus percent of power torque something(s) will break. then you change the things that break and something else breaks. Last time in my pursuit of this I broke many parts and my wallet. Some people buy their cars with power like my friend with a SS Camaro or 911 porsches, BMW M3's. They have said things like I am proud I bought this set up. But that is also the fun of it, making something faster, that is kind of the cool thing about this car, we can customize or "paint on a blank canvas" I'm not sure if you considered running maybe 4-5 psi and get a conservative tune.?

[John Rambo]

Hey guys,
After the swap the car threw a P0011 CEL (using the stock ECU out of my 2013 car with the 2015 motor, I assume flashed back to stock). They swapped my ECU with a Motec one out of their racecar to see if there was actually something wrong with my motor or if my ecu had gone bad, and with the Motec one the car worked fine. I went and bought the ECU out of the 2015 totalled car since a new one is much more expensive. I have yet to try it in the car with the 'new' motor.

Wondering if anyone has seen this code and knows anything about it, or why my ECU would throw the code but not a motec?
Thanks

[FRS Justin]

Originally Posted by John Rambo

Yep, car is going back to stock for now. Might do an engine build on the side but I need to be able to drive it in the mean time.

Very smart idea going back stock until you can build a motor.


The sure sign of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results..... Albert Einstein

[makesdrivingfunagain]

Originally Posted by FRS Justin

Very smart idea going back stock until you can build a motor.


The sure sign of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results..... Albert Einstein

Yeah, great idea. I test drove a 370 Z the other day it makes over 300 hp and a lot of torque. They come with a warranty. It was fun. I might be buying one someday. I was going to go forced induction on my FR-S but making power reliably, within warranty and legally wasn't going to work for me as a daily driver. I would just try to take a couple hundred pounds of the Z and I would be a happy daily driver : ) I know it is kind of apples and oranges but both cars are fun. I love my FR-S I just don't trust this thing being built with my engineering. I've done that before... I should of just bought a car built

[FRS Justin]

Originally Posted by makesdrivingfunagain

Yeah, great idea. I test drove a 370 Z the other day it makes over 300 hp and a lot of torque. They come with a warranty. It was fun. I might be buying one someday. I was going to go forced induction on my FR-S but making power reliably, within warranty and legally wasn't going to work for me as a daily driver. I would just try to take a couple hundred pounds of the Z and I would be a happy daily driver : ) I know it is kind of apples and oranges but both cars are fun. I love my FR-S I just don't trust this thing being built with my engineering. I've done that before... I should of just bought a car built

It is a hard choice to make, you will have to figure out exactly how much you want and what it takes to get there. If it a 1/4mi time I can help you.

[makesdrivingfunagain]

Originally Posted by FRS Justin

It is a hard choice to make, you will have to figure out exactly how much you want and what it takes to get there. If it a 1/4mi time I can help you.

Yeah, thanks for the response! I know it is a hard choice, that is always the catch. Making a "slow" (relatively speaking of course) fast is always tempting. It really is the beauty of modifying a car or hot rodding it. I would love to make this a 50K or 70K toy. But for me with my limited resources and money I would have to just purchase a car built. And still I couldn't afford a 50-70k car. The blank canvas of this car is appealing and a beautiful thing. I like having this motor stock as I trust it in this form!!! I could see myself spending easily 15-25 k more on this car with a highly modified forced induction car if I was to keep a 300hp rwhp FR-S in this form for 5-8 years. I don't know how many items I would break. I drive this car with maximum acceleration almost everday at least for just a moment. With 300 plus rwhp I don't know how long it would last... If I could afford it I would but an extra 20 K in this car for me isn't the best idea for now.

[John Rambo]

Originally Posted by FRS Justin

Very smart idea going back stock until you can build a motor.


The sure sign of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results..... Albert Einstein

If I wasn't insane before, I'll definitely be soon hahaha I just want the car back already

If anyone wants an update, I towed the car to evasive to have them swap the blown motor with a working stoco one. The car sat there for a few weeks while they were working on other projects and while I had to buy a new motor. I bought a motor out of a 2015 rollover crashed frs with less than 10k miles (mine is a 2013) on it from a local junkyard. I got a good deal on it since some pieces had battery acid on them, but I was assured it's all cosmetic and I got a 6 month warranty. My luck kinda ended there.

The motor got delivered on the 8th, they started work on the car about a week later I think, and got the motor in the car a few days after, but then I started having trouble with the ECU. My stock ECU was throwing a P0011 Code, but when they used the Motec ECU out of their racecar (to check if it was a problem with the motor or the ECU) the motor ran perfect. So they told me I needed a new ECU.

A new ECU is around 700, so instead I went and bought the ECU out of the same 2015 rollover FRS for 100, and dropped it off at Evasive. They then dropped the car off to the dealer to get the key programmed to the new ECU. Apparently now the new ECU isn't communicating with the instrument cluster, and the car is starting up in limp mode as a result I guess the 2015 ECUs aren't compatible, or maybe it's an FRS vs BRZ deal... who knows...

I could keep messing with junkyard ECU's, but I really need to return the rental I've had to get for a month now, so I opted for a new ECU from subaru. Hopefully it will work and I can get my car back... I'm guessing $5500 all together for the motor, new ECU, labor, and programming the keys, if there arent more issues. Not including the rental I had to drive. I wonder how much more money would it have been to get Full Blown's built shortblock instead...

[Kodename47]

AFAIK there are differences in the 2015 hardware, people who tried to update older ECUs got the communication DTCs. I doubt a new ECU will fix this, you will likely need a new dash cluster. Quite why a newer engine won't run on an older ECU is past me, resolving that would be easier than a 15 ECU in an older car. A P0011 code is to do with the cam position/sensor are you certain that isn't something that can be sorted, perhaps change sensors over from the old block?

[FRS Justin]

Originally Posted by John Rambo

If I wasn't insane before, I'll definitely be soon hahaha I just want the car back already

If anyone wants an update, I towed the car to evasive to have them swap the blown motor with a working stoco one. The car sat there for a few weeks while they were working on other projects and while I had to buy a new motor. I bought a motor out of a 2015 rollover crashed frs with less than 10k miles (mine is a 2013) on it from a local junkyard. I got a good deal on it since some pieces had battery acid on them, but I was assured it's all cosmetic and I got a 6 month warranty. My luck kinda ended there.

The motor got delivered on the 8th, they started work on the car about a week later I think, and got the motor in the car a few days after, but then I started having trouble with the ECU. My stock ECU was throwing a P0011 Code, but when they used the Motec ECU out of their racecar (to check if it was a problem with the motor or the ECU) the motor ran perfect. So they told me I needed a new ECU.

A new ECU is around 700, so instead I went and bought the ECU out of the same 2015 rollover FRS for 100, and dropped it off at Evasive. They then dropped the car off to the dealer to get the key programmed to the new ECU. Apparently now the new ECU isn't communicating with the instrument cluster, and the car is starting up in limp mode as a result I guess the 2015 ECUs aren't compatible, or maybe it's an FRS vs BRZ deal... who knows...

I could keep messing with junkyard ECU's, but I really need to return the rental I've had to get for a month now, so I opted for a new ECU from subaru. Hopefully it will work and I can get my car back... I'm guessing $5500 all together for the motor, new ECU, labor, and programming the keys, if there arent more issues. Not including the rental I had to drive. I wonder how much more money would it have been to get Full Blown's built shortblock instead...

Did you use your old harness off your blown motor or the 2015 one?
It could be pinned different.
My suggestion would be use the old harness old ecu and reflash.
You might have to use a lot of the old sensors like the throttle body map, Just try to go back as "stock" as you can. The ecu shouldn't know what year the motor is and it should run just fine if everything is back the way it was. It sounds like the ecu and the can bus aren't communicating fully.
Was the 2015 push button start and yours a key little things like that can cause havoc in a system. good luck brother

[John Rambo]

Originally Posted by Kodename47

AFAIK there are differences in the 2015 hardware, people who tried to update older ECUs got the communication DTCs. I doubt a new ECU will fix this, you will likely need a new dash cluster. Quite why a newer engine won't run on an older ECU is past me, resolving that would be easier than a 15 ECU in an older car. A P0011 code is to do with the cam position/sensor are you certain that isn't something that can be sorted, perhaps change sensors over from the old block?

Evasive said the dash cluster worked fine.
They said the motor has no issues with their Motec ecu so they think the P0011 code is due to a faulty ECU, and they think that might be why the motor went in the first place. They even called subaru asking if they would warranty just the ECU, and Subaru said no because it was flashed. I'm sure they tried troubleshooting it before testing the ECU but idk if they tried to swap the sensors.
They seem convinced that the ECU is faulty..
They also said a 2013 ECU and 2013 tune will work fine for the 2015 motor.

[John Rambo]

Originally Posted by FRS Justin

Did you use your old harness off your blown motor or the 2015 one?
It could be pinned different.
My suggestion would be use the old harness old ecu and reflash.
You might have to use a lot of the old sensors like the throttle body map, Just try to go back as "stock" as you can. The ecu shouldn't know what year the motor is and it should run just fine if everything is back the way it was. It sounds like the ecu and the can bus aren't communicating fully.
Was the 2015 push button start and yours a key little things like that can cause havoc in a system. good luck brother

I believe they used my stock (2013) harness, stock (2013) ecu, and reflashed. I was told my brz starts fine and everything, just a P0011 code. I had never seen this code ever, so they think the ECU threw the code unnecessarily, pulled timing and then boom. They can't get it to go away, but their motec ecu has the car running perfect.
Like I said they don't think this is a physical problem, they think the ECU is bad. The 2015 ECU didn't work for some reason, so I'm going to have to return it. They think a new 2013 one will solve the issue.

Edit:sorry for the double post

[FRS Justin]

Originally Posted by John Rambo

I believe they used my stock (2013) harness, stock (2013) ecu, and reflashed. I was told my brz starts fine and everything, just a P0011 code. I had never seen this code ever, so they think the ECU threw the code unnecessarily, pulled timing and then boom. They can't get it to go away, but their motec ecu has the car running perfect.
Like I said they don't think this is a physical problem, they think the ECU is bad. The 2015 ECU didn't work for some reason, so I'm going to have to return it. They think a new 2013 one will solve the issue.

Edit:sorry for the double post

I assume they reset the code and it came back. Before dumping 700 in a ecu I would check to make sure the harness doesn't have a short or the sensor is bad.
Did you have that code before the engine blew or after the swap. Either way I don't think that was the reason for your motor giving up the ghost. when things fail like that (cam sensor) they go back to a factory default that is designed to save a motor not finish it off. If you bypassed the factory ecu and it had no codes its in the electrical system has to be. I hate seeing you having to dump that kind of cash on a ecu..

[pushrod]

Originally Posted by wparsons

And Mazda has SkyActiv engines with 13.5:1 designed to run on 87 octane. Static c/r isn't the only thing that matters.

Back in my days of giving a crap about SBCs, I would read about guys who would build 350s or 383s with 11:1 compression and then "bleed off" the peak cylinder pressure by using a cam that was way too big for the engine's RPM range. While this approach "worked", they were leaving a ton of horsepower on the table.

Reducing DCR to have a sane SCR in a boosted application seems wise, unless you want to take the above approach and be miles away from an ideal setup.

[FRS Justin]

Originally Posted by pushrod

Back in my days of giving a crap about SBCs, I would read about guys who would build 350s or 383s with 11:1 compression and then "bleed off" the peak cylinder pressure by using a cam that was way too big for the engine's RPM range. While this approach "worked", they were leaving a ton of horsepower on the table.

Reducing DCR to have a sane SCR in a boosted application seems wise, unless you want to take the above approach and be miles away from an ideal setup.

Oh the days of using valve overlap in a sbc.I remember it well. A little split duration and presto a 11.1 motor on cast iron heads that you could put on the street.