UEL Catted header for my... Odd(?) build.

[Gringosteve]

Based on your worry about fire risk and warranty I would probably agree with others that a remap/tune would make more sense.

[Keenercarguy]

Originally Posted by cdq85

has there ever been a case of someone being denied warranty work while using OFT and flashing back to stock before the work was done? I know OP said he does not want a tune at this time but I can't recall ever reading a denial based on that. Then again, there's 9 billion threads so I could have missed one.

Shiv has said that he knows of no cases and that it should be nearly impossible to figure out that the engine has been tuned once you return to the stock tune. But, he also said full disclosure that it's not impossible and that the only way to keep your warranty bullet proof is to not tune.
I understand exactly what he's saying and I don't want to take the financial risk of the ridiculous cost of replacing the seal on the timing cover (it's a minimum three day job with a lot of actual no-bullshit labor to grind the old seal off and properly replace it, I sat in on part of the fix last time at the Subaru dealership because they're nice guys and I was curious). It's a lot of money in labor. So my warranty is my top priority as a college student.
I'm buying a header as incentive for doing well in the second hardest course of my undergraduate engineering degree. That's the only reason im spending anything on a bg mod at all, full disclosure. So i don't exactly have too much money to burn. I'd also never JUST buy a tune without a header ANYWAY... So theirs that too.
Again does anyone know of any cases of someone running a JDL Catted UEL without a tune? I'd consider doing a full E85 build on that header eventually in place of the Nameless and if it works now then it's basically be a no-brainer. its even cheaper than an ft86 Speedfactory header at the moment and coating options are available. Anyone know a good way to get in contact with someone at JDL who knows what they're talking about? (Sorry for all the long wordy posts, I just don't want to leave anything out haha)

[_gt86_user]

Anything you do to your car COULD void your warranty, you don't even have to do anything to it just drive it in a way the dealer will call abusive and they can void it. Personally I don't worry about the warranty because if something breaks chances are its my fault anyway. If you "fix up" the car might as well just fix it too just my personal opinion my bad if I went off topic.

[steve99]

Originally Posted by Keenercarguy

I see how i may have been unclear. Right the header is more noticeable than a tune BUT the warranty I care about is for the timing cover/crank case cover and that's part of the engine warranty: all of which would be voided if the use of a tune was discovered. However, correct me if I'm wrong, I'm just about positive that replacing the header only voids the warranty for the header itself (and the 02 sensor).
And yeah that's one of the best comparison dyno'd that I've seen! And yeah I'm really not going for some unicorn power figure without tuning: I just want the best header to run without any CEL codes or tuning that will remove the torque dip.
So far the best option seems to be the FT86 Speedfactory Catted UEL but they don't have any ceramic coating options which is a must in my scenario since if the oil leak returns it will be depositing a very slow and mild drop of OW-20, possibly onto the header itself, which has been shown to be a fire hazard on an unprotected header at full temp.

Warantee is a complex subject.

They can deny warantee even if your car is stock, for things like abuse, neglect, using vehicle outside intended use/purpose ie race/track work etc.

They may argue changing header and removing heat shields you exposed engine bay to more heat or more heat was directed onto a particular part of engine block due design of headers effecting gaskets/seals or rubber/plastic/belts parts etc. you also changing exhaust gas flows , positioning of o2 sensors, changing cat which will alter flows or temperatures etc. which may effect engine temperatures (thats why aftermarket headers produce more power/torque than standard ones).

If you alter anything engine related your open to arguments from dealer come warantee time.

Tunes you can flash back to stock (Ecutek leaves licence info in ECU which can be detected by comparing the ECU ROM checksum with a stock ROM. Openflash tablet and other opensource tuning methods don't leave liciencing info behind so checksum and rom is exactly the same as stock rom)

Headers you can change back to stock

[Keenercarguy]

Yeah I've come to understand that at all but it's much... More difficult to have a warranty voided in that manner and the dealer I go to is very genuine and respectful and I trust that they wouldn't bother me with that... Because it's very much not worth the court fees from me. But they'd have a real case with a tune. I also don't want to budget for a tune at the moment as the tune that i want isn't just some OFT off the shelf business. I intend to do it custom with an Ecutek tuner and a delicious tuning flex fuel kit. Also tuning doesn't fit into my current build ethos: OEM+ doesn't make sense when you're VOIDING the OEM engine warranty. That ethos is how I'm keeping myself to a realistic budget as a college student with a part time job. So it's really important to avoid the tune.
I'd rather get not header and no tune then a header and a tune or just a tune. Really. I can not WAIT to tune the car but I'm waiting for my Co-op internships to start in a year, then I'll be making 5x per year what my living expenses are in a year and that's when I'll start messing with tuning.
@steve99 Yeah, you make a fantastic point, that actually really helped me step back for a second (the big block i just posted was in response to the poster above you)
With that in mind it almost makes me want to reconsider buying anything at all. But that won't get me anywhere... I'm going to be talking to the service manager at the Subaru dealership on Monday when I drop my car off for the second oil leak repair. I intend to discuss the situation with him as well. (He's honest a goodt friend of one of my friends so I know he won't bother trying to play me). They see a lot of modified BRZ's come through the shop there.

[steve99]

Originally Posted by Keenercarguy

Yeah I've come to understand that at all but it's much... More difficult to have a warranty voided in that manner and the dealer I go to is very genuine and respectful and I trust that they wouldn't bother me with that... Because it's very much not worth the court fees from me. But they'd have a real case with a tune. I also don't want to budget for a tune at the moment as the tune that i want isn't just some OFT off the shelf business. I intend to do it custom with an Ecutek tuner and a delicious tuning flex fuel kit. Also tuning doesn't fit into my current build ethos: OEM+ doesn't make sense when you're VOIDING the OEM engine warranty. That ethos is how I'm keeping myself to a realistic budget as a college student with a part time job. So it's really important to avoid the tune.
I'd rather get not header and no tune then a header and a tune or just a tune. Really. I can not WAIT to tune the car but I'm waiting for my Co-op internships to start in a year, then I'll be making 5x per year what my living expenses are in a year and that's when I'll start messing with tuning.
@steve99 Yeah, you make a fantastic point, that actually really helped me step back for a second (the big block i just posted was in response to the poster above you)
With that in mind it almost makes me want to reconsider buying anything at all. But that won't get me anywhere... I'm going to be talking to the service manager at the Subaru dealership on Monday when I drop my car off for the second oil leak repair. I intend to discuss the situation with him as well. (He's honest a goodt friend of one of my friends so I know he won't bother trying to play me). They see a lot of modified BRZ's come through the shop there.

Dealers will still work on modded cars. They dont really care unless

1. You want warranted work done then they will carefully look at mods to see if they may have contributed to issue

2. The mods interfere with or make the mechanic take more time to do the scheduling servicing then they can charge extra or refuse to do the scheduled servicing that the mods are impeding them from doing in the normal manner.


If it was me I would definitely get the oil leak and any other known issues sorted before modding car, then drive for a few months to see everything is stable. Then think about the mods.

[Keenercarguy]

Yeah that's exactly my plan! I'm dropping the car off on Monday and then
going to essentially treat the engine as brand new and do another 800-1000 mile break in period. Additionally, the lead times plus shipping times on any header that I'd order would be more than enough time for me to break the car in calmly again. I'm skipping two months of AutoX to make sure the repaired seal sets right. I do want to order a header soonish though so that when I'm ready I can get right into the process without having to wait an extra two months for basically nothing... Does that logic make sense to you?
Also has anyone run any more viscous oil in our cars that anyone knows about? All the mechanics I've talked to so far about the oil leak problem attribute it to the oil being just too thin. The place it's seeping out of isn't evennunder pressure! So I was considering going to a slightly thicker oil in the near future, and also one that doesn't have a chance to. combust on a header. I know people have done it but I want to hear some opinions...

[steve99]

Originally Posted by Keenercarguy

Yeah that's exactly my plan! I'm dropping the car off on Monday and then
going to essentially treat the engine as brand new and do another 800-1000 mile break in period. Additionally, the lead times plus shipping times on any header that I'd order would be more than enough time for me to break the car in calmly again. I'm skipping two months of AutoX to make sure the repaired seal sets right. I do want to order a header soonish though so that when I'm ready I can get right into the process without having to wait an extra two months for basically nothing... Does that logic make sense to you?
Also has anyone run any more viscous oil in our cars that anyone knows about? All the mechanics I've talked to so far about the oil leak problem attribute it to the oil being just too thin. The place it's seeping out of isn't evennunder pressure! So I was considering going to a slightly thicker oil in the near future, and also one that doesn't have a chance to. combust on a header. I know people have done it but I want to hear some opinions...

Yep sounds like a plan for header

Have a read of basic bolt on mods link below its got some oil info in it.

I dont think the 0w20 oil is cause of oil leaks, and i doubt running a thicker oil will cure leaks, these engines like most do get the odd leak where your getting it and the rear cam plate on manuals.

The oil you want will depend on your local climate and the type of driving you do, warmer climate and extended hard driving you may look at a 5w30.

Colder climate and short duration auto-x 0w20 is fine.

Plenty of guys with the cam plate leak that drips oil onto overpipe, none gone up in smoke that i have heard of, although it probably possible, but unlikely.

[Keenercarguy]

Originally Posted by steve99

Yep sounds like a plan for header

Have a read of basic bolt on mods link below its got some oil info in it.

I dont think the 0w20 oil is cause of oil leaks, and i doubt running a thicker oil will cure leaks, these engines like most do get the odd leak where your getting it and the rear cam plate on manuals.

The oil you want will depend on your local climate and the type of driving you do, warmer climate and extended hard driving you may look at a 5w30.

Colder climate and short duration auto-x 0w20 is fine.

Plenty of guys with the cam plate leak that drips oil onto overpipe, none gone up in smoke that i have heard of, although it probably possible, but unlikely.

What about 0W-30 (to retain cold starts but work better when hot)? I push the car, um, quite a bit as it is... And the manual says 0w-20 or thicker for more severe conditions. Does driving harder than average most, if not all, of the time constitute a slight boost from SAE20 to SAR30? I do short ""hard"" drives multiple times a day with classes and work.

Edit: OH and when it gets noticeably colder out (below 45 degrees here in SC) my oil leak essentially disappears. It also is noticeably worsened when it is hot out (85 degrees+). Considering that I am in a warmer climate *and* I have noticed this... are those reasons together enough reason to consider 0W-30 or 5W-30?

[steve99]

Originally Posted by Keenercarguy

What about 0W-30 (to retain cold starts but work better when hot)? I push the car, um, quite a bit as it is... And the manual says 0w-20 or thicker for more severe conditions. Does driving harder than average most, if not all, of the time constitute a slight boost from SAE20 to SAR30? I do short ""hard"" drives multiple times a day with classes and work.

Below is very generalized.

0w is the cold start performance of oil if your seeing sub zero 0C(32F) temps a fair bit probably stick with the 0w, if it above zero most of the time then probably the 5w although a 0w will be fine.

The 20 or 30 ie number after the w is the "running" rating of the oil viscosity generally quoted for 100C (212F).

This is where you need to look at your oil temps . If your doing a fair bit of running with oil temp of 230-240 plus then you probably want to go to the 0w30 oil or an oil cooler. Oil cooler always the better option but not everyone want to fit one.

I never see any ambient temps below about 5C(40F) and do 30min plus track sessions so i use 5w30 (and have an oil cooler).

make sure oil is correct rating ie SN or GF5 and full synthetic.

have a look here
http://www.pqiamerica.com/apiserviceclass.htm

note SAE20 is not the same as 0w20

[Keenercarguy]

Thanks!
Now I just need to figure out who to talk to at JDL who would know what their talking about.

[???]

if your state requires a visual inspection as part of emissions testing, any header isn't gonna look factory, especially a coated one. The FT86-SF header is great to be a uel cuz it's not so uel. It removes the dip completely on a stock car, and if I were you I'd go for that. You're mistaken on the myth that a uel provides more low end and an el provides top end. if you compare headers on these cars, you might find that that holds true on a dyno depending on which ones you choose, but the fact of the matter is that uel vs el, all else equal, el makes more power everywhere because it's el. it's all about exhaust scavenging. You should worry about runner length and diameter if where your power is delivered is important to you. the only advantage of uel is the sound if that's what you're into. The FT86SF UEL sounds unique because it is a uel but it's not as unequal as something like the borla. It's also quiet unlike the borla and hks el lmao. it'd be hard to tell that you have it to the average person. if the visual inspection is required, they'll notice it's not stock which may be a problem and in that case, i suggest you get an uncatted one and swap in the factory one when u need to get tested.Also, when it comes to voiding warranties, in the U.S., they have to prove that your mod is what screwed up the car, and if they try to blame it on the part when it wasn't the part's fault, don't become a victim and fall for their tricks. The tune will not void your warranty. it's a myth and a common misconception that some dealer service managers don't even know. Anyways, there r many tuning solutions that are offered for this car that are removable and leave absolutely no trace on the ecu. You can remove your tune and put back your factory header when you go for emissions or for something warranty related to prevent any possible headaches.

[???]

and they will find anything to blame on your mods. they will blame your header for the burnt dome light inside your car

[Keenercarguy]

I'm pretty sure that the lawsuit that made it so the dealer had to prove a part was at fault, also listed engine tuning as an exception..? Anyone able to verify or prove that wrong?