STX Rules and Setup Questions

[justinco]

Originally Posted by Shark_Bait88

Well, for a variety of reasons it looks like I will be making the jump to STX from CS after this winter!

I'd been planning to go with a full CS TRD build, but then I got a good deal on one of my two sets of dream wheels for this car and will be getting a great deal on coilovers too.

Wheels are going to be 17x8 +35 RS Watanabe F8s
Coilovers are SACHS Performance

Looking forward to being slow in a different class next year!

[finch1750]

Originally Posted by vroom4

Same. I asked Odi and he said he'd never heard of that problem.....I'm like well im telling you it's happening haha.

Lol. It rides better where I'm set at anyway so I don't mind. Was kinda bouncy set soft.

[e1_griego]

Putting it at 8 clicks fixed like 90% of the noises, so you guys were right. Still slightly annoying, but so it goes.

Ride quality still excellent lol.

[Shark_Bait88]

STX parts have begun to arrive.

[DocWalt]

So, I'm curious what the thinking is with pretty much being required to have an aftermarket front bar to be competitive in STX... Just because it speeds up transitions that much for slaloms, chicago boxes, etc?

The reason I ask... I put big swaybars on my GTI and it definitely helped that aspect but it made the car ride like crap on the street. I want to avoid that at all costs for the BRZ as it will be my sole car...

I'd also like to avoid making the car understeer like it does stock when I go back to the track (possibly camber related issues there though as I'm still stock alignment) so avoiding the addition of a fat front bar will help there too.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by DocWalt

So, I'm curious what the thinking is with pretty much being required to have an aftermarket front bar to be competitive in STX... Just because it speeds up transitions that much for slaloms, chicago boxes, etc?

The reason I ask... I put big swaybars on my GTI and it definitely helped that aspect but it made the car ride like crap on the street. I want to avoid that at all costs for the BRZ as it will be my sole car...

I'd also like to avoid making the car understeer like it does stock when I go back to the track (possibly camber related issues there though as I'm still stock alignment) so avoiding the addition of a fat front bar will help there too.

Hypothetically, you could set the car up to run without sways with a stiff enough front spring to get high roll stiffness to achieve the fast transitions for the maneuvers an autocross demands, I think that's why most autox setups have equal (or near enough +/- 1kg/mm or 50lbs/in) spring rates F/R, bringing the front roll stiffness up to where the rear is.

I'm in the same boat, trying to decide where to go to be very competitive without too much sacrifice to DD/HPDE. Based on what you're looking at an adjustable sway bar may do the trick? It would be cool if you could go between softer than stock to compensate for front stiff springs and then ratchet it up to very stiff for your slalom heavy tight courses.

It seems like the hardcore guys aren't running big bars, sure there are a couple but the smallest whiteline bar and Strano seem to be getting the most praise and they're the mildest bars out there.

Heh maybe I'm wrong, pretty much all the setup advice here boils to ~400 lbs/in spring rates, small bias to your preference, slightly stiffer front bar. It will be an interesting journey.




Edit: Came across this thread last night, an interesting interpretation of how to setup this chassis:

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10643

[DocWalt]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Hypothetically, you could set the car up to run without sways with a stiff enough front spring to get high roll stiffness to achieve the fast transitions for the maneuvers an autocross demands, I think that's why most autox setups have equal (or near enough +/- 1kg/mm or 50lbs/in) spring rates F/R, bringing the front roll stiffness up to where the rear is.

I'm in the same boat, trying to decide where to go to be very competitive without too much sacrifice to DD/HPDE. Based on what you're looking at an adjustable sway bar may do the trick? It would be cool if you could go between softer than stock to compensate for front stiff springs and then ratchet it up to very stiff for your slalom heavy tight courses.

It seems like the hardcore guys aren't running big bars, sure there are a couple but the smallest whiteline bar and Strano seem to be getting the most praise and they're the mildest bars out there.

Heh maybe I'm wrong, pretty much all the setup advice here boils to ~400 lbs/in spring rates, small bias to your preference, slightly stiffer front bar. It will be an interesting journey.




Edit: Came across this thread last night, an interesting interpretation of how to setup this chassis:

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10643

I think I pretty much just need a ride in an STX prepped car on the street to decide if that's what I want to do...

I'm already going softer than the normal ~400lbs/in spring rate (I'm going with 6k f/r at least for the first half of '16), so I may be able to get away with the normal Whiteline or Strano front bar, then maybe the Whiteline adjustable rear for balance.

As it is, I've essentially never driven the car even close to CS prep, but I was reasonably competitive locally in STX with just a header and tune. Obviously Simmons and Slevin destroyed me, but it was fun to see what the Prius tires could do

[smg1138]

Hey, I have a pretty similar question. I just recently installed RCE Tarmac 2's in my FRS. I'm currently still running the Whiteline 20mm adjustable sway bar up front and the stock bar in rear. With RCE's recommended damping settings, it understeered pretty bad at my last AutoX event. I haven't had a chance to mess around with damper settings yet, but I'm wondering if I should put the stock swaybar back in front? It seems like with the stiffer spring rate of the T2's, the stock bars would be enough, but I'm not sure. Or would it be better to put a stiffer bar in rear to balance things out? Kind of confused which way to go at this point.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by smg1138

Hey, I have a pretty similar question. I just recently installed RCE Tarmac 2's in my FRS. I'm currently still running the Whiteline 20mm adjustable sway bar up front and the stock bar in rear. With RCE's recommended damping settings, it understeered pretty bad at my last AutoX event. I haven't had a chance to mess around with damper settings yet, but I'm wondering if I should put the stock swaybar back in front? It seems like with the stiffer spring rate of the T2's, the stock bars would be enough, but I'm not sure. Or would it be better to put a stiffer bar in rear to balance things out? Kind of confused which way to go at this point.

What's your alignment at? I've found it has a huge impact on balance, more camber up front could easily be the cure.

My car can actually use more camber up front (I believe I'm approximately at -3 degrees) but I actually run out of grip in the rear when I go up higher than my current setting, I believe this is because I'm still at OEM camber in the rear (less than -1.5 degrees). So I'm compromising my grip to retain balance. LCA's will be installed over the winter to prove this out.

[smg1138]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

What's your alignment at? I've found it has a huge impact on balance, more camber up front could easily be the cure.

My car can actually use more camber up front (I believe I'm approximately at -3 degrees) but I actually run out of grip in the rear when I go up higher than my current setting, I believe this is because I'm still at OEM camber in the rear (less than -1.5 degrees). So I'm compromising my grip to retain balance. LCA's will be installed over the winter to prove this out.

Camber is -2.5 Front & -2 Rear.

[drewbot]

@strat61caster my research is telling me that a Strano or similar front stiffness such as Hotchkis, White line 20mm is DD friendly yet more competitive than OEM

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by smg1138

Camber is -2.5 Front & -2 Rear.

I'd try more front camber before spending money on bars, it's common to hear numbers around -3 degrees or greater, you'd simply be adding front grip to reduce understeer. Unless of course you've been measuring tire temperatures and you're confident that with your setup more camber would reduce grip. But definitely try the stock bar too, who knows it may work better with your setup as well!

IMO I've been bouncing back and forth on camber plate adjustment on the fly, the only fear here is screwing up the toe but I haven't seen any adverse affects other than a hot inner edge while street driving with high camber. The geometry seems to be rather insensitive to camber changes affecting other measurements. Hopefully I'll get some tools this winter and actually prove this out and plot out some curves...

[Silver Ignition]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

IMO I've been bouncing back and forth on camber plate adjustment on the fly, the only fear here is screwing up the toe but I haven't seen any adverse affects other than a hot inner edge while street driving with high camber. The geometry seems to be rather insensitive to camber changes affecting other measurements. Hopefully I'll get some tools this winter and actually prove this out and plot out some curves...

From what I noticed from aligning this thing myself 10+ times since purchase is that the front camber has little-to-no effect on front toe.

The rear is a whole different story. Balancing act.

[swarb]

Any ideas to combat inside rear wheel lift?
I am on feal coilovers 7k/7k, everything else pretty stock.
2.9 camber all around, I know that is too much in the rear.
0 toe front. tiny bit toe in rear.
Front bar? Increase shock stiffness front? and softer rear?