Carbon Exterior parts and Lip Kit!!!!

[noAE86]

oic quite a big price diff,

for front lips, airdams, side shirts we don't really want super rigid, we've had a good few seasons usage out of Kevlar kits,
for wings, support bars, panel replacement, and the odd mounting system we do use carbon,

haha our carbon guy has very bad OCD and says the same thing about kevlar pita to lay, had to stop him a few times restarting to say "its good enough" normally he does very high end yachts and the lay has to be VERY precise,

roof and trunk would be my first choice of products, then if drive shafts ever get made...

[Memphis]

Originally Posted by WingsofWar

Some marketing demographics for you to consider,
Unfortunately the "18-25" age group of tuners has changed in the past 5 years and we are seeing less and less of the rice rocket movement. (although the stance movement has increased exponentially) Meaning that the age group actually have some knowledge and car for their cars than before. The BRZ/FRS general age group of current owners is also (most particularly in this site) is 25-40. So even if you still have a market for that old "young tuner" mentality..its going to be very small with such a wide age difference in owners under a single car based on association.

Also for those looking for the aesthetic and looks, the most popular trend rising is carbon vinyl wrap, which can be had at similar price of a non-performance oriented carbon piece..without worrying about fitment and quality.

So if your trying to push for Carbon FRP in this particular car segment..your going to have a rough patch.

Although Carbon FRP is still good low cost options for those who want a front splitter, and a rear diffuser, and you should capitalize on those items which are sought after but lack current solutions.



The Zx6 roof can be detached and is not a structural part of the main frame, much like Recent WRX imprezas and a few BMWs. Subaru does have a Carbon Roof installed in their '11 BRZ STI Concept, which is displayed on their STI catalog, but i don't think its a part you can purchase yet.

Yea I remember seeing that but thought it was just a concept at the time. So the roof is bolt on? You think there are any weight savings to be had with a carbon roof?

[noAE86]

Originally Posted by Memphis

Yea I remember seeing that but thought it was just a concept at the time. So the roof is bolt on? You think there are any weight savings to be had with a carbon roof?

"a grams a gram" as they say in F1, or was that mazda?

[staycrushing]

Originally Posted by 86design

Hey staycrushing....your name wouldn't happen to be Robert? would it?

it sure is haha

[staycrushing]

Originally Posted by noAE86

agreed
if its not dry carbon composite then its too heavy, buying parts that are equal to or heaver then stock is meaningless, maybe for silly show cars, and the whole concept of the gt86 was to be a light, rwd, drivers car,

not sure about pricing in usa but kevlar of the same weight/weave of carbon is only 9% more expensive, (of cause he was buying 12 rolls a time)

"silly show cars" is one way of looking at it, general public is another.

on paper it sounds like an excellent idea, dry carbon or a kevlar based hood/trunk etc...

but when your producing multiple units at once and mold and lets say that product flops... its a lot easier to sell something that "looks" like the dry carbon but doesnt cost as much.

the age group of the main portion of this market just simply wont fork out the cash for that type of part.

dont get me wrong in a perfect world we would be driving around roll caged full dry carbon shelled 400+ hp frs all day... but in reality i dont think the market will absorb such a product on a big enough level to justify the r/d and production costs.

[pyro530]

The aluminum hood is already very light, and if you are going to push a carbon replacement it needs to be properly vented (preferably reverse vented) as well as dry carbon-carbon composite and not Carbon FRP which will probably add weight over factory.

This.

Originally Posted by staycrushing

"silly show cars" is one way of looking at it, general public is another.

on paper it sounds like an excellent idea, dry carbon or a kevlar based hood/trunk etc...

but when your producing multiple units at once and mold and lets say that product flops... its a lot easier to sell something that "looks" like the dry carbon but doesnt cost as much.

the age group of the main portion of this market just simply wont fork out the cash for that type of part.

dont get me wrong in a perfect world we would be driving around roll caged full dry carbon shelled 400+ hp frs all day... but in reality i dont think the market will absorb such a product on a big enough level to justify the r/d and production costs.

I would only be looking into carbon fiber for weight savings, so replacing the aluminum hood is out. I would probably end up painting any other body parts (trunk, fenders, ect...) that I installed on the car. Again, not looking for the carbon look, only weight savings.
Also, my question is, how do you know who is going to buy these cars, they have only been out for a month (heck, not even a week in some areas) in the US?
I would be willing to bet $5 that the majority of these are sold to people above 25 except for the occasional spoiled rich kid. I'm 29 myself. Also, I'm guessing its going to be at least a year before the 'general public' gets their hands on this car. I'm thinking the majority of the cars coming over in 2012 will land in the hands of enthusiasts.

[WingsofWar]

Originally Posted by Memphis

Yea I remember seeing that but thought it was just a concept at the time. So the roof is bolt on? You think there are any weight savings to be had with a carbon roof?

when it comes to the lightweight replacement hood, roof, and trunk...we aren't really targeting weight loss, we are targeting lower CoG. Anytime we take weight from the upper quadrants of the body the result is better handling via weight distribution.

If we target weight loss for improved tended acceleration and breaking we closely look at the unwanted in the overall chassis, accessories, etc...like seats, sound deadening, spare tire....

[GinDo]

Originally Posted by staycrushing

That is one way of looking at it and I do appreciate the input, hood will be vented...

As far as carbon frp goes it will in fact be that... Dry carbon is too expensive for such a car (if some company does take the risk I do tip my hat to them) but being a 25k car most carbon stuff will be for looks...

In the broad scope of things this car is marketed as a scion and will attract a certain clientele on top of the performance/track guys. The 18-25 "tuner crowd" and most people love the look of carbon and do not necessarily care about the performance aspects and weight reduction part of it.

I love dry carbon and would rock it in a heartbeat... But when a properly vacuumed almost resin less proper dry carbon hood or other parts are produced the cost and final market price is just too costly to effectively market and sell to the general public.

Unfortunately, the 18-25 year olds can't afford this car. If I am not mistaken the target audience is around 27+ as a result of the price.

[mattles]

Originally Posted by GinDo

Unfortunately, the 18-25 year olds can't afford this car. If I am not mistaken the target audience is around 27+ as a result of the price.

lol Im 25.

[pyro530]

Originally Posted by mattles

lol Im 25.

Yeah, I'm sure there are a few out there. But you're also at the top of that 18-25 age block.

[GinDo]

Originally Posted by mattles

lol Im 25.

Good for you.

My point was simply to highlight the fact that the average age of people who will actually own a FRS/BRZ are much older then people think. Last I checked most people 18-25yrs don't have alot of money to throw around.

Yes, the FRS and BRZ do have alot of young fans, but very few serious buyers in that age group.

[staycrushing]

Originally Posted by GinDo

Good for you.

My point was simply to highlight the fact that the average age of people who will actually own a FRS/BRZ are much older then people think. Last I checked most people 18-25yrs don't have alot of money to throw around.

Yes, the FRS and BRZ do have alot of young fans, but very few serious buyers in that age group.

in the so cal scene ive seen A LOT of these type of cars especially 350z/g35/sti/evo bought by parents which is fine... then when mods come into play its up to the person who drives the car to fork over the cash... ive been selling parts for a few years now and know what sells... and what should sell.

I would love to release a dry carbon line of parts, maybe with a group buy and enough interest i can make this happen?

however both the manufacturers and I need to see a return on investment and with dry carbon its too much of a risk this early on.

if you guys would like dry carbon like you have been mentioning I will create a thread and talk it over with a few companies and see what I can make happen.

keep in mind though with a mold being developed and the production costs there does need to be a profit in order to recover costs so it wont be "homie hookup" priced.

[mattles]

Originally Posted by GinDo

Good for you.

My point was simply to highlight the fact that the average age of people who will actually own a FRS/BRZ are much older then people think. Last I checked most people 18-25yrs don't have alot of money to throw around.

Yes, the FRS and BRZ do have alot of young fans, but very few serious buyers in that age group.

I think your over-generalizing and ignorance will one day be your down fall.

[staycrushing]

and as far as age group goes... im 22, but the car is titled, financed and insured in my name and work a full time corporate job as well as this "consulting" and marketing for different brands.

its the perfect car for someone in their 20s... it turns heads, not too bad to insure, gets around 30mpg and handles like a beast.