Motor Blew Last Night

[Justin.b]

There's really no conservative way to do aftermarket turbo or supercharger on a factory engine running 12.5:1 compression.

My engine blew without boost in normal street driving, and there are a lot more people who had had these engines fail in normal operation without boost. If you're not comfortable with blowing things up and rebuilding them from scratch then you should definitely avoid bolting on boost.

-Justin

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by John Rambo

My car had a couple issues with the tune they tried to fix. When I would lightly press the throttle the revs would dip far below idle and the car would almost stall or sometimes stall. Occasionally would stall soon after starting it and driving around when I would put the clutch in or shift to neutral. They tried to fix it by fixing a vacuum leak I didn't know I had on the catch can, bumping up the idle and causing the revs to sort of hang around 1.5k rpm when I put the clutch in for a couple seconds but it didn't really do much to help. I didn't go back again for a revision on this.

Also the car would jerk/hesitate sometimes at low speeds making it difficult to drive and the AFR's would jump around a bit at low speeds and also the car seemed like it was running rich at times, but I was told that's to be expected with a custom tune like I had. I also had a warm starting issue where the car would continue to crank but not start if I was starting it when the engine was already warm. If I tried to start it a couple times though it would start.

Also the car made some strange noises at idle that sounded kind of sketchy to me, but Randy told me that it wasn't anything to be worried about and there wasn't much I could do to fix it.
You can kind of hear it in this video, the tapping sound I guess.

Evasive is a well known and popular shop. They do a lot of great builds. I think I just got unlucky somehow and I'm not sure if it's the tune or something else that caused it to blow. They said they will be able to take a look at the car on the 23rd and maybe then I'll have more insight into how it happened.

Most of this is bulllshit. A custom tune should not run like shit. They definitely did not have your port injectors tuned properly.

[xwd]

Do you have any pictures? Like others have said a brand new shortblock is around $2100. You can buy the case, crank, and bearings separately if you are going to build the block anyways with new pistons/rods but in the end it's not all that much cheaper.

I would never run a stock engine FI on straight 91 octane CA gas.

[John Rambo]

[NyC Zn6]

Another one bites the dust..smh...hope everything works out bro

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by King Tut

Most of this is bulllshit. A custom tune should not run like shit. They definitely did not have your port injectors tuned properly.

Real talk, specially when it's a bolt on kit with a proven MAF sensor location tried and true to be able to be tuned successfully.

[johan]

Originally Posted by John Rambo

Nothing done to the motor itself. It's got a perrin oil cooler, koyo radiator, exedy stage 2 clutch (unrevised version), a catch can.
Evasive did the tune. I talked to Randy today on the phone and he said none of the cars (with FA20) they have tuned have had blown engines, except mine now, but some of their customers that have had tunes elsewhere have. Of course except their own racecar which they blew at 400-something whp. But he cautioned that anything over 300hp is kind of sketchy on the FA20. Mine dyno'ed at 279whp on their mustang dyno, before I got rid of some exhaust restriction.

He also said their tunes are generally conservative enough for longevity on the drivetrain, and he said customers with the Greddy turbo kit have been tracking their cars for a long time now with no engine failures like mine. My car has never been to a track or a drag strip. Just street driving. No tickets so I guess that might give you insight into how I drive :P

EVERY shop says stuff like this. It's meaningless and does nothing but make you feel bad. The tune was sub par, and you likely had some other physical issues in the build that lead to this...

Originally Posted by John Rambo

My car had a couple issues with the tune they tried to fix. When I would lightly press the throttle the revs would dip far below idle and the car would almost stall or sometimes stall. Occasionally would stall soon after starting it and driving around when I would put the clutch in or shift to neutral. They tried to fix it by fixing a vacuum leak I didn't know I had on the catch can, bumping up the idle and causing the revs to sort of hang around 1.5k rpm when I put the clutch in for a couple seconds but it didn't really do much to help. I didn't go back again for a revision on this.

Also the car would jerk/hesitate sometimes at low speeds making it difficult to drive and the AFR's would jump around a bit at low speeds and also the car seemed like it was running rich at times, but I was told that's to be expected with a custom tune like I had. I also had a warm starting issue where the car would continue to crank but not start if I was starting it when the engine was already warm. If I tried to start it a couple times though it would start.

Also the car made some strange noises at idle that sounded kind of sketchy to me, but Randy told me that it wasn't anything to be worried about and there wasn't much I could do to fix it.
You can kind of hear it in this video, the tapping sound I guess.

(I had this problem with oil burning out the exhaust a while ago and it resolved itself - probably had to do with me tipping the catch can accidentally when I was trying to empty it.)

Evasive is a well known and popular shop. They do a lot of great builds. I think I just got unlucky somehow and I'm not sure if it's the tune or something else that caused it to blow. They said they will be able to take a look at the car on the 23rd and maybe then I'll have more insight into how it happened.

^ All of this is proof. None of these issues should exist... PERIOD. The kit wasn't installed right and/or something else was wrong with the engine / clutch / transmission / whatever. If the shop truly cared about the quality of your experience, they would have fixed these issues.

That said, I don't know the nature of your relationship with Evasive and what you had done with them other than the tune. If there were install issues with any of your parts, and they didn't install them, then that's not on them - beyond their responsibility to advise you... which if they were tuning the car and there were issues, they should have done so.

The number of "high quality builds" a shop has had, has time and again, proven meaningless when it comes to the quality of their tuning on a given platform.

[FRS Johnny]

Originally Posted by xwd

Do you have any pictures? Like others have said a brand new shortblock is around $2100. You can buy the case, crank, and bearings separately if you are going to build the block anyways with new pistons/rods but in the end it's not all that much cheaper.

I would never run a stock engine FI on straight 91 octane CA gas.

CA people don't have much choice... 91 is the highest octane pump gas we can get. 100 octane is out there but very rare and expensive to run or even mix with 91 to get 93. Octane booster to me is sketchy and isn't very convenient if you have to add it to every tank. E85 is starting to make its way to more gas stations, but it still has poor fuel economy, but it's still the choice of fuel for me.

[John Rambo]

Originally Posted by johan

EVERY shop says stuff like this. It's meaningless and does nothing but make you feel bad. The tune was sub par, and you likely had some other physical issues in the build that lead to this...

The kit wasn't installed right and/or something else was wrong with the engine / clutch / transmission / whatever. If the shop truly cared about the quality of your experience, they would have fixed these issues.

That said, I don't know the nature of your relationship with Evasive and what you had done with them other than the tune. If there were install issues with any of your parts, and they didn't install them, then that's not on them - beyond their responsibility to advise you... which if they were tuning the car and there were issues, they should have done so.

The number of "high quality builds" a shop has had, has time and again, proven meaningless when it comes to the quality of their tuning on a given platform.

Well, I installed the turbo kit for the most part but not all of it was done, and I had the car towed to them. They had to machine the turbo exhaust housing since full blowns downpipe fitment wasn't great and I messed it up trying to install it so there was an exhaust leak there. Also full blowns fans melted. I requested they do an inspection of my install and fix everything that was wrong. So they replaced the fans and had the turbo housing machined and said everything else checked out. I later had them install a number of parts on the car including the koyo radiator, perrin oil cooler, exedy stage 2 clutch, boost controller, catch can, and of course the dyno tune. I was under the impression nothing was wrong, and that everything was good. Except the car needed additonal cooling.

A while later their custom mount for the perrin oil cooler broke my ac condenser and when i pulled the car apart I was very disappointed with the way they mounted it. They replaced the condenser for free but I still had to pay like 4 hours of labor to have the mount redone. I was also disappointed that I was recommended parts that don't fit together properly and then later I was recommended I should have gone with a different oil cooler set up since mine wasn't exactly ideal for cooling. But then again this is kinda my fault for not doing all the research separately and ahead of time and choosing the right parts to buy in the first place, but it would have been nice if the parts I should've gotten were the one's recommended.

Now, I'm pretty sad all of you are saying these issues aren't normal for a custom dyno tune. I definitely brought up everything written here with them, but I should have done more research and made it a bigger deal than I did I guess. But it's in the past now and I have to move forward with the car. Don't know if I want to go FI again, this kinda killed it for me.

I like Evasive and I think a lot of people have good experiences with them. I think mine might be different but in a lot of ways it's my fault for not doing the homework I should have done. And maybe I just got unlucky with the motor too.

[Cal3000]

Originally Posted by John Rambo

Well, I installed the turbo kit for the most part but not all of it was done, and I had the car towed to them. They had to machine the turbo exhaust housing since full blowns downpipe fitment wasn't great and I messed it up trying to install it so there was an exhaust leak there. Also full blowns fans melted. I requested they do an inspection of my install and fix everything that was wrong. So they replaced the fans and had the turbo housing machined and said everything else checked out. I later had them install a number of parts on the car including the koyo radiator, perrin oil cooler, exedy stage 2 clutch, boost controller, catch can, and of course the dyno tune. I was under the impression nothing was wrong, and that everything was good. Except the car needed additonal cooling.

A while later their custom mount for the perrin oil cooler broke my ac condenser and when i pulled the car apart I was very disappointed with the way they mounted it. They replaced the condenser for free but I still had to pay like 4 hours of labor to have the mount redone. I was also disappointed that I was recommended parts that don't fit together properly and then later I was recommended I should have gone with a different oil cooler set up since mine wasn't exactly ideal for cooling. But then again this is kinda my fault for not doing all the research separately and ahead of time and choosing the right parts to buy in the first place, but it would have been nice if the parts I should've gotten were the one's recommended.

Now, I'm pretty sad all of you are saying these issues aren't normal for a custom dyno tune. I definitely brought up everything written here with them, but I should have done more research and made it a bigger deal than I did I guess. But it's in the past now and I have to move forward with the car. Don't know if I want to go FI again, this kinda killed it for me.

I like Evasive and I think a lot of people have good experiences with them. I think mine might be different but in a lot of ways it's my fault for not doing the homework I should have done. And maybe I just got unlucky with the motor too.

Evasive is a good shop, but the problem is you have no idea who is doing your dyno tune. I think they have multiple tuners going at it. The 2 times I went there to have a tune, I had no idea who the tuner was. They make you wait in the lobby. That is another variable for you.

[Evasive Motorsports]

Ok lets get this straight. Everyone wants to point the finger at us or our tuner, but we never know what kind of driver you might be after your car leaves our shop. Maybe the car was over-revved or something which we may never know. Evasive only has one in house tuner which has 15+ years of experience of tuning. The tunes we do are on the conservative side for daily driving.

When your car first came to us, it was a mess. No offense but you and few friends tried to do the install yourself which made it harder for us to work on later. After from having issues not being install correctly it fell into our hands with stripped turbo manifold bolts and parts not being install correctly.

Not only we wanted to fix items on the car like the oil cooler with longer lines. You did not want to spend the extra money for long lines. Yes we made the mistake on mounting it before because we couldn't really mount it anywhere else. We did replace your A/C condenser with a new one free of charge. There was other items we address to fix or maybe change but that was up to the customer if they wanted to do it or not. If there were any other issues with the car. We should of looked at it then continue to drive the car.

We are sorry that this has happen and are willing to help you out the best we can.

-Evasive

[John Rambo]

Originally Posted by Evasive Motorsports

Ok lets get this straight. Everyone wants to point the finger at us or our tuner, but we never know what kind of driver you might be after your car leaves our shop. Maybe the car was over-revved or something which we may never know. Evasive only has one in house tuner which has 15+ years of experience of tuning. The tunes we do are on the conservative side for daily driving.

When your car first came to us, it was a mess. No offense but you and few friends tried to do the install yourself which made it harder for us to work on. After from having issues not being install correctly it fell into our hands with stripped turbo manifold bolts and parts not being install correctly.

Not only we wanted to fix items on the car like the oil cooler with longer lines. You did not want to spend the extra money for long lines. Yes we made the mistake on mounting it before because we couldn't really mount it anywhere else. We did replace your A/C condenser with a new one free of charge. There was other items we address to fix or maybe change but that was up to the customer if they wanted to do it or not. If there were any other issues with the car. We should of looked at it then continue to drive the car.

We are sorry that this has happen and are willing to help you out the best we can.

-Evasive

I already stated about how I like your shop. And I admitted the car had problems when I brought it to you guys. That's why i didn't drive it and I had it towed. There were some some stripped bolts on the turbo exhaust side housing and the issue with the fans with them wired improperly when I was trying to troubleshoot them and that was about it if my memory serves me correct. I paid to have that stuff fixed and I'm not blaming you guys for any of that.

No, I didn't want to pay for long lines. But maybe if you recommended another oil cooler that would have already come with different sized lines that would have fit my application better it would have been nice, and it wouldnt have to have been mounted so poorly. Kind of frustrating that I had to pay for so many hours in labor to mount an oil cooler that was inadequate for my application and not in an ideal location, twice. That's my fault too since I should've done more research. I should have just bought a setrab cooler and lines and I think that should have been the advice I was given, not to buy a prepackaged set and then have to pay again for other lines. But this is off topic.

The car wasn't over revved. I'm not asking you to believe me, but I know it wasn't.

What a lot of people have been saying is that the issues with the tune you told me were normal and not worth worrying about were actually not normal. I'm not claiming to know more than your tuner with 15+ years of experience, but I'm not sure why everyone here is saying those problems I brought up right after I got it tuned and then again later that you told me were nothing to worry about are actually something to worry about.

I'm just sharing my experience, and if you read all of my posts in this thread carefully you'll see I'm not attempting to put the blame on anyone or trash the shop at all. Just trying to share what happened to me and figure out where to go from here. That's all.

[steve99]

With that weird idle problem you had it may have been due to this mechanical problem below , this bleeds off oil pressure and will interfere with cam operation and appears to be able to cause other oil pressure related issues

That oil control valve fails, it should look like the bottom picture



http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...postcount=2969
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...postcount=2972

[GsxrMe]

What were you tapping oil for next to the AC? Did you install a different oil feed for the turbo? Fullblown doesn't tab oil there; they use a T fitting on the oil pressure barb.

I also see a catch can, do you have both left and right PCV valves venting to atmosphere to prevent crack case being boosted? Fullblown recommends vent to atmosphere on the kit no matter what.