Dealer says I broke the clutch on a 45 minute solo test drive? Is he scamming me?

[SamuelDev]

Hey folks,

I own a 2016 Subaru BRZ. My curiosity got the better of me, so I test drove a 2015 WRX STI sport-tech. I drove it for 45 minutes -- I had some fun, but nothing too crazy at all. I know how to drive standard.

Anyway, the dealer sent me this just now:

In reference to your test driveof the STI on november 4th, 2015, I am curious to discover who it is that has interest in this vehicle as I have not heard from you or Mr. Jones. I am also interested to know who was driving as well.

Upon return this car reaked of clutch burn and was subsequently put on the computer which gives a detailed analysis of its path and how it was treated during the test drive, ie: revolutions per minute, revolutions at clutching etc., very similar to the black boxes used on aircraft.

The findings of this process were not very favorable as this car may need a clutch now and we're not yet sure how the clutch burn smell will be removed from the interior.

Normal company policy is that these vehicles are not allowed out on a test drive without being accompanied by a sales person, but in this case our new sales representative did not know this.

I replied with this in response:

I am questioning whether it's possible that we managed to break a clutch in a 45 minute driving window, especially where I don't recall us exceeding normal highway speeds of 120km/h going around the ring road? For example I learned to drive clutch on my BRZ which I recently got from you guys -- which is really the most abusive you can be towards a new clutch (fresh clutch, new clutch driver), and the clutch on the BRZ is still fine, despite that. I also had some burning smell in the new BRZ -- very strong sometimes -- but looked it up online and dozens of owners say that that is perfectly normal for the first 1000Km of driving a new boxer engine with that gearbox. Sure enough the smell went away in my BRZ, and my clutch is still fine.

Here's a few links that I came across, and hundreds of similar posts if you do a quick google search. Same for the BRZ.

http://www.clubwrx.net/forums/everyd...ing-smell.html
http://www.iwsti.com/forums/2015-sti...tch-smell.html

Dozens of people saying the smells are normal, and sometimes very strong, during the first 300-1000km. If the clutch does need replacement, I would be very, very surprised. When I was learning on my BRZ I made a few posts online, worried that learning stick on my BRZ was going to cause me to break my clutch. I had lots of people tell me that that is extremely hard to do, and that even a clutch which someone goes really hard on should last 30,000Km at absolute minimum. At any rate, that's just my 2c.

So, a couple of questions.

1: Am I screwed here? Is he going to be able to sue me for the cost of the car or something, even though I am 100% positive there's no fucking way in hell I managed to "break" a clutch in a 50Km drive?

2: Is it possible for any of the blame to fall on me, considering that his sales guy "wasn't supposed to let me go alone"?

3: Is the dealer just trying to scam me or something?

Curious to hear your guys' thoughts...

[murdoc]

Did you launch it aggressively?

[SamuelDev]

Originally Posted by murdoc

Did you launch it aggressively?

I did one test launch to see what was up with the boost but shifted up as normal and stopped accelerating around 60km/h because I was in a residential zone. Nothing that would break a clutch, but with a fresh clutch / fresh engine, certainly something that might have caused some of the new-car-engine-breakin-smell.

[stugray]

If they press the subject any further, ask to see the COMPLETE dataset from the car.


I would be interested to see if the data contains actual timestamps of when the car was "abused" or just "High water marks" like " Max RPM ever recorded".


If it is the latter, then they would have no way to prove it was you that did it.


My guess is that if you sound like you know what you are talking about and you demand to see the data, they will shut up.

[ScoobsMcGee]

If you're worried, consult a lawyer. Laws vary region by region, but I would imagine the burden is on the dealership to prove it was your driving and not someone before or after you. That is if the car even actually needs a new clutch.

[SamuelDev]

Originally Posted by ScoobsMcGee

If you're worried, consult a lawyer. Laws vary region by region, but I would imagine the burden is on the dealership to prove it was your driving and not someone before or after you. That is if the car even actually needs a new clutch.

Yeah, I'm going to ask for the data as per the person before you, and I'm going to explain to the dealer that there was 250Km on the odo before I got in it, so the person(s) before me might have been hard on it, too.

What I'm worried about is that he said "I'm not sure how we'll get the smell out of the car", which makes me think he's going to try and say I made the car unsellable or something and will try and pawn the whole thing off on me.

[BRZoomTX]

I'd personally say responsibility falls on the sales rep, as they are supposed to be with you in order to prevent these types of things from happening. Inexperienced drivers abusing cars and such. Not saying you're inexperienced, just thats the point of it. Usually they would give you an OK to a test pull or a launch where safe, so the liability would fall on them. I'm sure they're going after the employee as well and this is just your side of things.

It is impossible for the clutch to wear enough to need a replacement within 45 minutes of being driven hard by someone who knows how to drive. Most clutch wear comes from inexperience, which your BRZ proves that isn't the case here. Unless you really messed up and you're lying about how much you abused it, I'd say you're pretty safe.

As posted above, ask for full diagnostics regarding how they are proving you are responsible, including times where possible. If you believe them to have even a sliver of a somewhat valid case against you, consult a lawyer. Most have a $50-100 consulation fee. Chump change to cover your ass from a $1000+ repair bill.

Originally Posted by SamuelDev

What I'm worried about is that he said "I'm not sure how we'll get the smell out of the car", which makes me think he's going to try and say I made the car unsellable or something and will try and pawn the whole thing off on me.

Its BS to make you feel bad. A car can easily be cleaned to get rid of smell, especially clutch smell. It doesn't sink in to the interior in a way something like smoking would, and I've personally cleaned smoker cars of over a year and completely gotten rid of the smell.

Don't agree to anything via email. Ask for proof then consult a lawyer, or tell them to shove off entirely. This is a risk they take when letting customers test drive cars and is why the sales rep is supposed to be with you.

[Nickosport]

A new clutch will have some smell while bedding the disc, its perfectly normal. And the smell can be strong. I'd like to see anyone drive a brand new clutch without smelling it, the same way with brakes - the smell is part of the bedding in process.

It sounds to me like they haven't opened the trans to look at the clutch. Diagnosing clutch wear by smell is not going to be accurate. Diagnosing by computer may give you an idea of how the car was driven, but unless the tech is qualified to interpret that data (which he is not) it means nothing. An engineer or inspector would need to look at that data in conjunction with physically looking at the clutch.

Would they replace the clutch in your BRZ just because you said it smells? No, they would take it apart and have an inspector look at it to make sure nothing was wrong first. This guy is skipping the middle step and trying to go straight to "make that guy that test drove it pay" without even know if there is an issue.

There is so much wrong with that email - I would probably go rip this guy a new one in front of all of his colleagues and potential customers. Ask him to share the data that he got from the ECU, if he wont then the conversation is over. Accusations need to come with evidence - and they haven't even put their eyes on the clutch yet. I'd be pissed, especially as a returning customer.

[ScoobsMcGee]

Originally Posted by SamuelDev

Yeah, I'm going to ask for the data as per the person before you, and I'm going to explain to the dealer that there was 250Km on the odo before I got in it, so the person(s) before me might have been hard on it, too.

What I'm worried about is that he said "I'm not sure how we'll get the smell out of the car", which makes me think he's going to try and say I made the car unsellable or something and will try and pawn the whole thing off on me.

As BRZoomTX said, don't worry about the smell. Many, many years ago I worked for a Cadillac dealership where we would frequently have to get cigarette smell out of trade-ins. Cars which had been smoked in (and heavily) for years. The dealership should already have the tools to do so, so they wouldn't even incur a cost.

[shattered_memory]

Like others have said..the burden is on the dealership to prove that it was in fact you who messed up the clutch. It could have been a combination of different drivers including people who work at the dealer. To sue you over a clutch replacement would be a huge waste of their time. Also, they already admitted fault in their e-mail to you when they mentioned that they should of had a sales person ride along with you. If I were you, I wouldn't worry. The dealership is just being a jerk.

[tobin]

"Normal company policy is that these vehicles are not allowed out on a test drive without being accompanied by a sales person, but in this case our new sales representative did not know this."

It's on them, not you.

[xwd]

What are they going to do, sue you over a stock clutch replacement without any direct evidence? Tell him to pound sand and you will take all of your business to another dealer.

[Veloist]

Stop overthinking it. It's clearly the lack of communication between the new salesperson & the dealership.

[NyC Zn6]

so how do you like the 15 STI?