Second Generation FT86 Confirmed

[fumanchu1]

Originally Posted by jsimon7777

People often mistake advancement with losing the edge. Which Integra was the best? Not the first gen. Which Supra? Which RX-7? There's no rule here. Any new generation of twin will be turboed because of fuel economy requirements. I'd like to see an EV version. That would be a blast.

Integra: not the last one either lol
Supra: is anyone really going to argue this? obv the 2jz powered one with the previous generation not far behind (the 7m powered one were nice but the 1jz powered ones are great)
RX7: I think that just comes down to which rotary didn't detonate

[fumanchu1]

Originally Posted by Justin.b

They all seem to just be getting it wrong. Every time someone claims a car is imported from Japan, there's someone responding with the actual plant location in the US.

I'll just have to read window stickers more closely. Next car is probably a Focus ST, so at least I won't have to be disappointed to find out it wasn;t made in Japan.

-Justin

Does it really change anything though, the only reason certain countries are viewed more favorably then other is the general quality/quality control they have in those countries (I.e: Europe/Japan good; China/Taiwan bad). That is only a general statement, I have seen many made in US or Japan things that were complete crap with little to no quality control and I have seen things made in China that far outshine their European counterparts both in quality and price. Not all US made things are good and not all China made things are crap. I would much rather buy a Mexican made car with good quality control than a Japan/Europe made car with poor quality control or.... lying about it's specs/performance *cough cough* VW * cough*

[Justin.b]

Originally Posted by fumanchu1

Lexus IS never was much of a sports oriented car to begin with, that's why most of those you see are automatic, no LSD and driven by older folks(not so much now since they are affordable to the younger generation). I feel like the original IS300(altezza) was a miss on the part of Lexus/Toyota as they could've had either a very nice comfy car or a more sporty sedan but instead chose to split it down the middle trying to make it a bit sporty to appeal to a younger generation all the while pricing it to an unattainable price range for most younger generations.

I still love the IS300 though that's why I owned one before the BRZ

I was pretty active on is300.net for a while, and those cars were priced within reach. I think they started right around $30k and the people buying them (or at least the ones on the forum) were mainly in their mid-20's.

It would be silly to develop a car aimed mainly at people younger than that because they usually don't have any money. Even if you drop the price to $25k, you'd get the broke mofos saying they're just going to build a civic faster than the IS for $12k....

-Justin

[fumanchu1]

Originally Posted by jsimon7777

I'm pretty sure our Forester came from Japan because they picked it up from the port. There's no magic in Japan, though. Much and maybe even most of quality comes from processes and design, assembly workers. Except in British cars.

Of course, everyone knows british cars are all built in someone's shed in their backyard... That is the British way.

[Hoahao]

And where did Mr Deming teach and introduce his theories and systems when NA businesses told him to go pound salt?

Hakone Convention Center in Tokyo, August 1950. MacArthur got him into Japan in '47.

I'm 63 so your talking to a guy who started out working when the US still had an industrial base. I worked a number of manufacturing jobs including "the line" at Chrysler. Ended up as a Supervisor at a plant making polystyrene stuff. Took a number of management courses where Deming came up, as well as Frederick Winslow Taylor, whom I'm sure you know.
Realized the writing was on the wall about careers in making things and got out and got into finance.

Many have been raised to a legendary status by a generation that have more often than not never even sat in one much less drove it. Yes, yes I know there are some that have but it is not this minority that have perpetuated the legends but the kids that grew up wanting one because it was the coolest in that movie or video game.

Yep, and some variant of that probably extends to chariotsback in Roman times too. In cars, at least 100 years now... Stutz Bearcat...

[Justin.b]

Originally Posted by fumanchu1

Does it really change anything though, the only reason certain countries are viewed more favorably then other is the general quality/quality control they have in those countries (I.e: Europe/Japan good; China/Taiwan bad). That is only a general statement, I have seen many made in US or Japan things that were complete crap with little to no quality control and I have seen things made in China that far outshine their European counterparts both in quality and price. Not all US made things are good and not all China made things are crap. I would much rather buy a Mexican made car with good quality control than a Japan/Europe made car with poor quality control or.... lying about it's specs/performance *cough cough* VW * cough*

As someone who has a Japanese-built FR-S that is currently sitting at the dealer with a blown engine @ 39k miles, I'm not too sold on Japanese quality at the moment.

It was mainly just curiosity.

-Justin

[fumanchu1]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Oooh, good call with those cars, however I would argue quite staunchly that the best generations were NOT the last generations with the DC5 Integra picking up weight and MacPherson struts, the MK4 Supra being more a grand-touring car than the sportier Mk2 & 3 and the FD being rather unattainable and tempermental compared to the much more reliable and playful FB/FC, not to mention the FE could be accused of not having a fraction of the edge of the 7's.



Well, 300zx was definitely less a sports car than other Z's, I don't think anyone would honestly take it over a 240Z-280Z, the new WRX is a V6 Camry in styling and performance and the STI is using a 15 year old engine vs. lightweight and tossable bugeye, Mustang is a muscle/pony car finally entering the late 20th century with IRS, definitely an improvement there (after many generations with one step forward two steps back), Corvette can't take track abuse, and Lotus currently only offers the Evora (heaviest lotus to date I think? what a sham) in the U.S. and to my knowledge hasn't significantly reworked a car in well over a decade (Thank god Danny Bahar didn't get the chance to follow through on his 'vision').



With the exception of the Mustang and Elise, I think I prefer an earlier generation of ALL the cars listed over the latest generation when it comes to using them as sporting vehicles, HPDE/AutoX/weekend driving.

I would take 10 300Zx befor 240's... 240s are overdone, they are everywhere and everyone that sees one assumes its a rusted abused POS drifting car(which they are not wrong most times)

[fumanchu1]

@strat61caster I actually like the Mk3 the most but different things appeal to different people, That's why some people like boxy vehicles like th Xb and other are normal

[Justin.b]

Originally Posted by fumanchu1

I would take 10 300Zx befor 240's... 240s are overdone, they are everywhere and everyone that sees one assumes its a rusted abused POS drifting car(which they are not wrong most times)

I miss my 240.

-Justin

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by fumanchu1

I would take 10 300Zx befor 240's... 240s are overdone, they are everywhere

Better sell your 86 before the next 70,000+ hit the continent over the next 3-4 years.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Hoahao

Yep, and some variant of that probably extends to chariotsback in Roman times too. In cars, at least 100 years now... Stuz Bearcat...

Yes, but it took a lot longer to raise that chariot or Stuz to legend when you had to press your thoughts into a clay tablet or send a letter to a magazine, hope it got printed and that anybody read it so things truly had to shine in their own era to be desired so much by the next generation. Now you can fall in love with a car by looking at thousands of them at whim, watching it perform (usually way beyond reality) in a movie or anime, think you know how it handles from sitting in front of a screen with a controller in your handand listen to 100s of others preach it's gospel in blogs and forums. The fact that you may never have even touched one does not matter as you feel you know it so well.


I know this reads as if I think poorly of people that like these cars. That is not the fact. I myself have a love of many cars I have never driven and never will. The difference lies in the fact I would never even think of running around spewing "these were the bestest cars ever" when I really have no clue what it is actually like. I have been a car guy for over 40 years and it is really only in the last 15 or so that I have seen the whole car scene go to this almost surreal admiration of cars that very few discussing ever even owned.


Crotchety old guy rant over.

[Hoahao]

Good news Tcoat!! Your Crotchetyness will only increase as you get older!!

"When I was a boy," F. Scott Fitzgerald wrote, "I dreamed that I sat always at the wheel of a magnificent Stutz, a Stutz as low as a snake and as red as an Indiana barn."

[fumanchu1]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Better sell your 86 before the next 70,000+ hit the continent over the next 3-4 years.

Nah I'm good, they are not so popular here (Winter in Canada discourages a lot of people from buying rwd) and you hardly see any. Also not sure there are really any other modded ones in my region (on the Quebec side as I know a few from the Ottawa, ON side), funny thing I actually spoke to my regional subie and toyota/scion dealer to see if warranty work would still be possible (answer is a definite no once they heard what was modded) and although they didn't want to do warranty work they did want me to bring it in as apparently they hadn't seen one modded (aside from the usual exhaust), service guy told me he had a few mechanics salivating when he asked if they would do warranty work with my list of mods.

[fumanchu1]

@justin don't get me wrong it's a cool, nice car but around here they're a dime a dozen, everyone I know who drifts/drifted had one at one point or another in the last 5 years (We're talking over 20 people I personally know well in a city of 300 000 (100 000 if you take only my city before the fusion). And since demand is high they are all overpriced and beaten to shit, very rare to see one without a rusted frame (they put so much fucking salt on the roads here in winter you could probably attract deers with the roads)