RR Racing Brake Development -- Competition and Street

[ravisraval]

Will the new rear kit have an option for narrow calipers?

[Rookie84]

Originally Posted by Rafi@RR-racing

Our new 4 piston front kit will not clear RPF1 17x9+35. It will easily clear the 17x8+45 version for the BRZ (this is due to the dish on the 17x9's which is not so good for caliper clearance).


That said, a couple years ago we built a Turbo 86 with this exact setup as our new 4 piston kit and it fit 17x9 RPF's with just a 3mm spacer. With such a minimal spacer you don't even have to change the studs, you get enough thread engagement.


That said, it is a bit of pain that you have to use a spacer, BUT, the upside is that the new 4 piston kit uses the thick 0.8" pads.

Thanks! 3mm is nothing so I wouldn't mind having to use it. Anyway, can't wait to see your 4 piston kit!

[Rafi@RR-racing]

Originally Posted by ravisraval

Will the new rear kit have an option for narrow calipers?

All of our rear kits easily clear OEM and other wheels. Rear fitment is easy because the caliper sits inboard so clearance is not an issue.


We are about 1 week away from release of our new rear kit. It is based the STi rear rotors, however unlike STi 2 piston rear brembos, the forged 4 piston calipers we use are properly sized for the BRZ to optimize brake balance.

Rafi


edit 10/19/15: I indicated above that we are 1 week from release of our new rear kit. We have to do some final fitment/testing, but I will soon announce a more precise release date.

[JTOFJPN]

are those BC coilovers?

I dont trust anyone's testing in "motorsports" if they run that china garbage.

[djdnz]

Originally Posted by Rafi@RR-racing

All of our rear kits easily clear OEM and other wheels. Rear fitment is easy because the caliper sits inboard so clearance is not an issue.


We are about 1 week away from release of our new rear kit. It is based the STi rear rotors, however unlike STi 2 piston rear brembos, the forged 4 piston calipers we use are properly sized for the BRZ to optimize brake balance.

Rafi

Forgive me if this was posted in an earlier comment, but you are throwing around the words "optimize" and "maintain" brake balance. Can you actually quantify the brake bias of your various brake packages vs. stock vs STi brembo? I'm currently musing the idea of the stage 2 front with your new rear kit. Oh one more thing - I've noticed the calipers posted in some pictures have extra test engravings - which ones do not have additional engraving aside from the wilwood text?

[Rookie84]

Originally Posted by JTOFJPN

are those BC coilovers?

I dont trust anyone's testing in "motorsports" if they run that china garbage.

They are BC coilovers but are custom valved to Element Tuning's specs, I believe. Phil has been around long enough and knows his stuff so I would discredit him just for using BC coilovers.

[JTOFJPN]

Originally Posted by Rookie84

They are BC coilovers but are custom valved to Element Tuning's specs, I believe. Phil has been around long enough and knows his stuff so I would discredit him just for using BC coilovers.

a diamond crusted pile of shit is still a pile of shit.

[cruizin01]

Originally Posted by djdnz

Oh one more thing - I've noticed the calipers posted in some pictures have extra test engravings - which ones do not have additional engraving aside from the wilwood text?

Its a sticker. It can be removed.


Sent from HTC M8 while in burnout mode

[Rafi@RR-racing]

Originally Posted by djdnz

Forgive me if this was posted in an earlier comment, but you are throwing around the words "optimize" and "maintain" brake balance. Can you actually quantify the brake bias of your various brake packages vs. stock vs STi brembo? I'm currently musing the idea of the stage 2 front with your new rear kit. Oh one more thing - I've noticed the calipers posted in some pictures have extra test engravings - which ones do not have additional engraving aside from the wilwood text?

That's a good question, so I hope that the chart below helps to understand the relative differences between the front/rear brake torque ratios of OEM, STi, and our setups.


The bottom line is that any increase in front bias simply does not work well on the 86, especially on the track. Symptoms include premature front lockup and ice mode activation, especially when using track pads. Using just our front kits maintains OEM bias, but we still recommend using slightly higher friction pads in the OEM rears compared to BBK fronts.


So far, all of our stage I rear testing has been conducted with minimal or no rear downforce. With Phils car (w/ large rear wing), we found that a further rear bias increase (stage II) improves braking and helps to reduce front ABS and 'ice mode" activation.


In the future, we would like to do more testing with higher "stage II" rear bias on cars with no rear downforce. Some preliminary feedback from drivers with our Stage I rears indicates that there might be additional benefit to further rear bias shift.



Regarding the "engravings." On the Stage I and III kits that use powder coated calipers, we simply add our "RR" circle logos to differentiate it from an off-the-shelf Wilwood kit. For all the other kits we now offer custom high temp colors with just our logos.

Rafi

[Rafi@RR-racing]

Originally Posted by JTOFJPN

a diamond crusted pile of shit is still a pile of shit.

I really don't want to make this a suspension argument. Fact is, Phil is an amazing driver and his FRS is certainly one of the fastest in the country. So from that perspective, we are very thankful for the opportunity to use Phils car as a testbed.


That said, one thing we always emphasize with our own products is our commitment to "made in USA." All the other track worthy BBK's available for the FRS are primarily made in UK, Taiwan, or China (I doubt Brembo's are even made in Italy anymore). We machine all of our components in the USA, and the Wilwood calipers we use are forged/machined in the USA. Our 2 piece rotors are 100% made in USA. The only exception is our 1 piece rotors which are made by Stoptech. We use their premium high carbon rotors because they are very good rotors, and we know of no USA made rotors for the 86.


As far as suspension goes, we wish everyone appreciated a proper American made suspension and had the resources to buy it. Our RR-Racing/Penske Coilovers for the Lexus ISF and RCF are 3x the price of BC (but they are also 3x better:-)

[Rookie84]

Originally Posted by Rafi@RR-racing

That's a good question, so I hope that the chart below helps to understand the relative differences between the front/rear brake torque ratios of OEM, STi, and our setups.


The bottom line is that any increase in front bias simply does not work well on the 86, especially on the track. Symptoms include premature front lockup and ice mode activation, especially when using track pads. Using just our front kits maintains OEM bias, but we still recommend using slightly higher friction pads in the OEM rears compared to BBK fronts.


So far, all of our stage I rear testing has been conducted with minimal or no rear downforce. With Phils car (w/ large rear wing), we found that a further rear bias increase (stage II) improves braking and helps to reduce front ABS and 'ice mode" activation.


In the future, we would like to do more testing with higher "stage II" rear bias on cars with no rear downforce. Some preliminary feedback from drivers with our Stage I rears indicates that there might be additional benefit to further rear bias shift.


Rafi

I thought that STi front and rear combo moved the brake bias further forward than only having STi front + OE rear? I read that piston size in STi rear brakes are even smaller than OE, further compounding the bias problem.

[Rafi@RR-racing]

Originally Posted by Rookie84

I thought that STi front and rear combo moved the brake bias further forward than only having STi front + OE rear? I read that piston size in STi rear brakes are even smaller than OE, further compounding the bias problem.

According to my records, STi rear caliper pistons are 36mm, and BRZ OE rear are 38.1mm... so the STi caliper generates less brake torque, but since the rotor is bigger (316mm vs. 277mm) its not as bad as it could be.

[djdnz]

Can anyone comment on the brake dust for the BP20 pads? What about squeal?

[ravisraval]

Originally Posted by djdnz

Can anyone comment on the brake dust for the BP20 pads? What about squeal?

Just got these last Friday. Getting a small amount of squeal, but it's nothing compared to what I had on the EBC yellowstuff.