Car Won't Start - Please help!

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by SkiRideDrive

Thanks for the info guys.........

Should I try clutch pop starting it? ............

I don't know if that works with a ECU controlled ignition/fuel injected engine .... ??

I would be interested in finding out .....??

Anybody ......??


humfrz

[ToySub1946]

Clutch pop starting does work on our cars...I've done it more than once...(obviously ignition key must be in on position) yet I'm not sure if that's his only problem (engine starter won't crank engine, yet everything else ok ?).

I've also driven the car downhill on winding dirt roads with the engine off...just for kicks...lol.

I was an auto tech at a Honda Stealership years ago. We did install those gadgets on new cars for a while...thus the experience and knowledge given. I'm not sure if what's on his car is as simple as what we installed, but expect so. Easy to install, and fast to install...and the tech gets paid little for the job...therefore lots of chances for error...

For me, I'd think nothing of removing the device and put the car's wires back as they were from the factory. Doubtful that a tech would even notice...if wires crimped back together properly.

Though wouldn't it be just nice to prove to a Stealership that sometimes crap they install, not recommended by the manufacturer can easily cause problems. If a car works as new, don't mess with it.

If the car gets towed, especially under warranty...then the parts dept, sales dept, and service dept can all fight over who pays for the bill.

Very stupid overall for dealerships to install these devices unasked for, on all their new cars. Customers should complain to the manufacturer.

Just my rant...

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by humfrz

I don't know if that works with a ECU controlled ignition/fuel injected engine .... ??

I would be interested in finding out .....??

Anybody ......??


humfrz

Works perfectly. ...as long as everything else is ok, if you know what I mean.

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

Works perfectly. ...as long as everything else is ok, if you know what I mean.

Thanks, that's good to know .....


humfrz

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by ToySub1946

Clutch pop starting does work on our cars...I've done it more than once...

I've also driven the car downhill on winding dirt roads with the engine off...just for kicks...lol.

Thanks for the info ....

Ya, right .... so, ....... you were quietly leaving your lady friend’s house, down the back road, after her husband came home unexpectedly ..... ??




humfrz

[Ultramaroon]

[steve99]

Originally Posted by Beastronix

@ToySub1946 you get an A+ for taking the time to put that much thought into this for a stranger

I can rule out the 86Nanny for certain on the ECU side. It's impossible for the device to alter the ECU. It simply joins the vehicles network and talks to 1 of the many ECUs, no writing or flashing of any sort. It talks to the car just like the rest of the toyota electronics do.

Your final assumption with the security system is where I'm leaning. The wire taps definitely didn't look factory and something probably shorted out on a circuit after things got moved around.

For a test I went out and pulled my AM1 fuse and I get to exact result. AM1 is the circuit from the ignition switch --> ACC --> starter. Placed the fuse back in and solved, car starts.

I sent Kevin an email just now asking to swap that fuse and test even though his meter is testing good. I'm beginning to wonder if the meter is lying to him...

I dont think you can rule out your nanny box completly if its connected to the OBD port

All the Control units in the car exchange data on the CAN bus, if your device is swamping the buss with crap data or interfering with communications on the CAN buss then car wont start. The ECU DASH and Imobiliser module need to exchange data for the car to start
@SkiRideDrive IF that nanny device is still connected to the OBD port then definitely disconnect it completely don't just power it off its may be interfering with CAN buss communications

[ToySub1946]

First do everything you were told by others above, if that does not work...

And if all of this info sets you off on a tangent, totally unrelated to your problem, then I apologize in advance, and sorry I'm not there to see it in person.

Disclaimer: "DONT TRY THIS AT HOME"

O.K. lets for my sake go back to that dealer installed thing. let's for the moment assume it's the problem, and it's activated, and it simply creates an open circuit to the wire going to the starter relay....that ONLY, and does nothing else.

Attached pic of my car's wiring in car...to compare to pic in video...so you see what a stock wiring is like, with nothing aftermarket attached.

Then I have two pics at the starter solenoid. First pic is of wires covered...one from the battery, large wire, covered with black rubber, second small wire still attached.

Second pic is of same wires at solenoid with rubber pulled back, and small wire to solenoid has black hard plastic end removed from solenoid (push in on top of hard plastic to remove).

Starting my car with ignition key in on position, >>>gearshift lever in neutral<<<, e-brake pulled up all the way on, no need to push in clutch pedal. YET COULD BE DANGEROUS IF CAR NOT FOR SURE IN NEUTRAL. Best to have a second person inside car with foot hard on the brake pedal on the floor for safety reason.

So I started my car (tonight) by connecting these two terminals with a screwdriver. Screwdriver should not be grounded against anything else, and not hit third large copper terminal (barely shown)...only between both uncovered terminals. Note: This surely causes a spark at the screwdriver tip, and the sound of the starter whilst doing so, may make one jump, as in startling...but it works. Certainly a better way would be wires with a hand switch. aka 'remote starter switch'.

This is all very basic knowledge, any auto tech would know, just really simple.

If the above does get the car to start and run, then the next step would be to get rid of that dealer installed item...by clipping all it's wires, where it's been tapped into the fuse box...computer...certainly easy to just follow all it's wiring and remove the entire aftermarket stuff it contains.

The fun of it all, as always, is learning one's own car gradually, becoming less afraid of it's innards. Certainly a way to fall in love, never wanting to give up the car.

[OnkelC]

Not sure if suggested already, but did you check if the Steering Wheel may be locked?

[fridayfrs]

Originally Posted by OnkelC

Not sure if suggested already, but did you check if the Steering Wheel may be locked?

If this was the case the key wouldn't turn.

OP if it turns out to be the dealer installed box id make them remove it. I hate it when they do that.

[SkiRideDrive]

Originally Posted by ToySub1946

First do everything you were told by others above, if that does not work...

And if all of this info sets you off on a tangent, totally unrelated to your problem, then I apologize in advance, and sorry I'm not there to see it in person.

Disclaimer: "DONT TRY THIS AT HOME"

O.K. lets for my sake go back to that dealer installed thing. let's for the moment assume it's the problem, and it's activated, and it simply creates an open circuit to the wire going to the starter relay....that ONLY, and does nothing else.

Attached pic of my car's wiring in car...to compare to pic in video...so you see what a stock wiring is like, with nothing aftermarket attached.

Then I have two pics at the starter solenoid. First pic is of wires covered...one from the battery, large wire, covered with black rubber, second small wire still attached.

Second pic is of same wires at solenoid with rubber pulled back, and small wire to solenoid has black hard plastic end removed from solenoid (push in on top of hard plastic to remove).

Starting my car with ignition key in on position, >>>gearshift lever in neutral<<<, e-brake pulled up all the way on, no need to push in clutch pedal. YET COULD BE DANGEROUS IF CAR NOT FOR SURE IN NEUTRAL. Best to have a second person inside car with foot hard on the brake pedal on the floor for safety reason.

So I started my car (tonight) by connecting these two terminals with a screwdriver. Screwdriver should not be grounded against anything else, and not hit third large copper terminal (barely shown)...only between both uncovered terminals. Note: This surely causes a spark at the screwdriver tip, and the sound of the starter whilst doing so, may make one jump, as in startling...but it works. Certainly a better way would be wires with a hand switch. aka 'remote starter switch'.

This is all very basic knowledge, any auto tech would know, just really simple.

If the above does get the car to start and run, then the next step would be to get rid of that dealer installed item...by clipping all it's wires, where it's been tapped into the fuse box...computer...certainly easy to just follow all it's wiring and remove the entire aftermarket stuff it contains.

The fun of it all, as always, is learning one's own car gradually, becoming less afraid of it's innards. Certainly a way to fall in love, never wanting to give up the car.

Thanks again for the help guys. I am leaning towards calling dealer and just saying the car won't start, and leaving it at that. And asking them to take care of it. If they won't tow it I can call my roadside assistance. Dealer is only like 3 miles away (not dealer I bought it at, that is more like 40 miles) Car is only a few months old and less than 3,000 miles. If I mention the box they will start asking more questions, how I found it, etc. At this point I think it is the alarm box unit the dealer installed that is causing the issues. I'd rather not remove it myself, I feel the dealer should do that if they determine that is the issue. Particularly if it is routed inline of factory wires and I would have to resplice/solder. I am capable of that work but I have never done it on a huge factory loom that is under warranty. If they ask if I have an alarm, I will simply let them know the conversation I had with the salesman rejecting the alarm and how he put the plug in the under kick panel port.

As for jumping the solenoid with a screwdriver, I have done that on motorcycles and it may turn the motor over, but I don't foresee that solving my problem. Also, if I screw it up you can fry a lot of things and I'd rather not go causing any problems.

Also wheel is not locked, I can rotate the key to start the car, just nothing happens.

If anyone disagrees please let me know. Best I have got at this point.

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by SkiRideDrive

Thanks again for the help guys. I am leaning towards calling dealer and just saying the car won't start, and leaving it at that................

If anyone disagrees please let me know. Best I have got at this point.

Good plan!

Oh yes, DON'T leave the dealership without a detailed explanation of what was wrong and how it was fixed............

Tell them that ...... The Forum Guys ....... "gots ta know" ......


humfrz

[SkiRideDrive]

Oh yea I will definitely try to figure that out to fill everyone in.

[Beastronix]

Originally Posted by steve99

I dont think you can rule out your nanny box completly if its connected to the OBD port

All the Control units in the car exchange data on the CAN bus, if your device is swamping the buss with crap data or interfering with communications on the CAN buss then car wont start. The ECU DASH and Imobiliser module need to exchange data for the car to start
@SkiRideDrive IF that nanny device is still connected to the OBD port then definitely disconnect it completely don't just power it off its may be interfering with CAN buss communications

@steve99 I'm well aware of the CAN bus and how it works. The nanny isn't even powered on until the button is pressed. When the button is pressed it gets power and sends a single message over the network. When the button is released power is back off. There isn't even a slight chance of it causing error frames on the bus. Even if it's purposely programmed to spam the bus you would simply get a check engine light for the next 10 miles... It can't alter the ECU with how it's flashed.

It sends the exact data the manual pedal dance does, no different.

The only harm the nanny could possibly do is blow the OBD fuse if a high powered device is plugged in the OBD pass-thru while the 86Nanny is enabled (which is why the ACC harness exists).