Turbo frs vs 911 gt3

[brady86]

So I have noticed pretty much all bolt on turbo kits sit around 300 whp which would prob be close to 350 to the crank do a little wieght reduction and have the frs sitting at 2700 pds. Still I see a lot of people saying that is just how the car should come from the factory and wanting to go 400 whp to make it real fun.

Porsche 911 gt3 we have 3153 lbs and 475 hp crank so about 100-125 more crank hp and about 400ish pds heavier

Frs power to weight ratio-7.7
911 gt3 - 6.6

Frs 0-60 (turbo) -? 0-100-?

911 gt3 0-60- low 3s 0-100 -mid to high 7s

This being said since the frs power to weight ratio is 1 off the 911 gt3 can people be seeing 3s 0-60 times or at least low 4s if that's the case I would think that's a lot more then just makes it how it should have been more like wow this is fast. Any input?

[RandomDeception]

I have some input despite my lack of knowledge, but I honestly don't understand why most people prefer to turbocharge their twin instead of supercharging it *, which changes the dynamic of the vehicle more significantly.

First off, there is turbo lag, and no matter how minor, the linear power progression of the stock naturally aspirated engine will be thrown off. In the case of a supercharger, the torque curve can be more linear and will offer a boost right from the beginning even at lower RPMs.

Since we are only talking about 300 horsepower at the wheels here, we can see that the turbo wouldn't need to be large and can start spooling at a very low RPM, but in my mind that still does not compare to a supercharger for the same application. There have been superchargers for this car that can output above 300 horsepower at the wheels safely, so I think that is more comparable to the Porsche 911 GT3's more powerful naturally aspirated engine.

* Edit: We are only talking about producing 300 horsepower in the case of this thread.

[ajaxthebetter]

I don't have a turbo, nor have I ever drove a porsche. However, the GT3 is rear engine and thus has a healthy amount of weight over its 300+section tires. A GT3 RS runs 335 section out back. Suffice it to say, it can put the power down.

This is where powerful BRZ/FRS are lacking: grip. If you want to see a 450hp/550tq BRZ, youtube Crawford BRZ and watch Motortrend's video. The BRZ runs a blistering figure 8, but severely struggles to launch, and, more importantly, stay cool.

I would be interested to see someone do a sort of BRZ GT3 build. IE, maybe Todoroki fenders, custom rear quarters that retain the lines (Someone did it in the 720 form wheel thread) and lots of power. Would be interesting.

Edit: If I had the money and driving skill, I too would supercharge for linearity in power delivery.

One last disclaimer: I could be completely wrong on how well the Twins now put down mass power. I know Spitfire on here has a built motor, etc, and seems to put it down fine.

[brady86]

true the traction thing is a issue but from a roll I would think the frs would be able to hang with it I mean I'm talking in a daily drive environment where there are no extreme launches just rolling from a stoplight and flooring it but also with the turbo it makes more torque then the supercharger and as dynos and trail has shown seems to be the faster option.

[brady86]

.

That's a good link for this thread mid 4s with a 300whp avo kit
Seemed like a really light launch to if that's the case I bet 50-80 more wheel would be getting in the zone of the Porsche speeds which is a car if I drove I would be cursing with joy of the speed so I'm thinking turbo might be worth it

[DarkSunrise]

GT3

[Deep Six]

Porsche has probably the best launch control on the planet, combined with PDK its basically auto pilot. The Turbo S hits mid 2's.

[Twin4Life]

Originally Posted by Deep Six

Porsche has probably the best launch control on the planet, combined with PDK its basically auto pilot. The Turbo S hits mid 2's.

Yep, my dream car. 99.5% Bugatti performance for less than a 1/10th of the price and you can still go to Trader Joes.

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by Deep Six

Porsche has probably the best launch control on the planet, combined with PDK its basically auto pilot. The Turbo S hits mid 2's.

And will do it again and again and again without overheating or going into limp mode.

[humdizzle]

pretty much what everyone else said.. its going to take more than power to weight to beat a GT3. At most you might take it on a 60-130 pull, but you are going to need a power/weight heavily in your favor to make up for the 7spd pdk in the porsche.

you are going to have issues with cooling no doubt if you even attempt a track day. While the GT3 can do an hour long session in the heat no problem.

If you want a low 3 sec 0-60 you are gonna need a good amount of power, boost off the line, sticky tires, and a transmission that will hold that power. The only manual cars that can come close to that type of 0-60 have a super long 1st gear so you dont have to shift to reach 60.

[Sideways&Smiling]

Originally Posted by RandomDeception

I have some input despite my lack of knowledge, but I honestly don't understand why most people prefer to turbocharge their twin instead of supercharging it *, which changes the dynamic of the vehicle more significantly.

First off, there is turbo lag, and no matter how minor, the linear power progression of the stock naturally aspirated engine will be thrown off. In the case of a supercharger, the torque curve can be more linear and will offer a boost right from the beginning even at lower RPMs.

Since we are only talking about 300 horsepower at the wheels here, we can see that the turbo wouldn't need to be large and can start spooling at a very low RPM, but in my mind that still does not compare to a supercharger for the same application. There have been superchargers for this car that can output above 300 horsepower at the wheels safely, so I think that is more comparable to the Porsche 911 GT3's more powerful naturally aspirated engine.

* Edit: We are only talking about producing 300 horsepower in the case of this thread.

It's pretty simple. Turbochargers are more efficient, and they generally make much more power and torque (despite the brief lag on a properly sized turbo like you mentioned).

Superchargers kick in torque earlier, but turbos will make much more of it. The linear response of superchargers is great, but it doesn't really matter if the car with a supercharger can't be competitive with the car with a turbo in terms of acceleration.

Note, this is mostly the case with smaller displacement engines. Obviously, as displacement goes up, the more competitive superchargers become.

[Canehda]

If you've driven a 911 you'd agree with me that 911 GT3 will always be the answer, the way you can throw a gt3 into a corner and just set it an angle while still getting traction is exhilarating. A GTx Porsche is something you can NEVER turn down.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Canehda

If you've driven a 911 you'd agree with me that 911 GT3 will always be the answer, the way you can throw a gt3 into a corner and just set it an angle while still getting traction is exhilarating. A GTx Porsche is something you can NEVER turn down.

Angle and fast/traction do not go together... unless you're one of the rare elite drivers that can maintain slip angle.

[Canehda]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Angle and fast/traction do not go together... unless you're one of the rare elite drivers that can maintain slip angle.

I'm not saying crazy drifting angle, I mean a 5-10* angle where you know the car is sliding but it still feels planted

And I never realized being able to hold an angle made you elite *blushes*