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Engine, Exhaust, Transmission Discuss the FR-S | 86 | BRZ engine, exhaust and drivetrain. |
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08-29-2015, 05:50 PM | #43 |
Add lightness!
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Is it that time of year again for this old debate?
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08-29-2015, 05:51 PM | #44 | |
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08-29-2015, 06:43 PM | #45 |
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Had NST light weight pulleys on my AE86 for about 8 years now. I used to daily it until I got another car and have taken it to the track multiple times. No problem at all. Oh, I also have light weight flywheel and drive shaft.
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08-29-2015, 07:24 PM | #46 |
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Got them google clicks though
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08-30-2015, 12:25 AM | #48 |
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Pulleys do absolutely nothing. Headers doh....
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08-30-2015, 01:04 AM | #49 | ||||||
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What do you mean which SFI? There's only one SFI, but if you want to know the actual part of the SFI specifications that pertain to dampers, it's 18.1. It's not marketing BS, SFI is a safety rating. Not that many people are going to be going faster than 10.99, so it's not really required, but most people would rather have a better made and functional part... Quote:
Actually, no, it's not like the BBB, but it's apparent you're ignorant in this. There's a ton of different brands that make proper dampers, yet again, your ignorance in the matter doesn't mean it's not true. The reason lightweight crank pulleys are made and sold is the same reason there are a million different miracle cures for engine issues that are all nothing more than petroleum distillates... placebo effect and people want to believe. Quote:
And you're ignorant of everyone's background here, so why make remarks like this? Quote:
Haven't looked at any of these product websites closely have you? Nearly all have disclaimers about their products being for "off road use only" which absolves them of any claims of damage. Quote:
The stock pulley is more expensive to produce than a simple pulley turned on a lathe. Yes, most of the aftermarket ones go out of their way to shave more weight, so they require a bit more machining than that, but the general point is this: if the OEM's could save PENNIES on a part, they would. The multi piece damper pulley could be made FAR cheaper if it didn't have the damper, so why is it there? If you really think they're cheaper to produce, you might want to do some research... Quote:
It's a DAMPER, not a BALANCER. These are two very different things. It's there for torsional harmonics, not to balance an engine. |
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08-30-2015, 11:12 AM | #50 |
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^Game. Set. Match.
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08-30-2015, 12:09 PM | #51 |
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Check & Checkmate... 👍
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08-30-2015, 01:07 PM | #52 | ||||||
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Google SFI, there are lots of them. You are assuming they mean the one you think they do, why? Oh it's safety, so you are saying a team of engineers from this SFI runs the product through a lengthy process, or does the company just do it? . I bet thatThis guy's roll cage had an SFI number too. Didn't help much, right? Quote:
Yea, It is like the BBB. A group that makes "ratings" to make companies look good, but don't actually do much when said companies screw up. Unless your SFI has the power to shut the company down and take everything the company has to use as compensation for victims, it is just like the BBB. Quote:
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And you are assuming you know why the little piece of rubber is actually there. But have you actually asked any new car engineer if that is really why it is there? Damper and balancer are very similar things in automobile parlance, to the point if you google one you get the other... Funny how the wiki article even mentions Flat 8 engines, lol. This stuff is probably very important on old school V-8 engines and the like. Which the BRZ is most certainly not. Here's the deal, find me proof of any lightweight pulley actually damaging an otherwise stock small displacement normally aspirated engine. Go for it, show actual proof these things can hurt the engine. I'll be waiting. |
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08-30-2015, 03:13 PM | #53 | |
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This has already been discussed in numerous threads and has been beaten to death.
Here is one of the best quotes out of all of them: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...armonic&page=6 Quote:
1 - The OEM part IS a torsional harmonic dampener - period. It is a classic case of one AND is likely built around specific harmonic frequencies. AND it is HEAVY - one of the adjustable parameters when designing a dampener. 2 - The OEM part is positively, unquestionably MORE EXPENSIVE for the manufacturer to use than one machined from billet Al. 3 - Switching from the OEM pulley to a lightened pulley set WILL result in a noticeable difference in rev up/down when the engine is decoupled from the drivetrain. 4 - Switching from the OEM pulley to a lightened pulley set (NO Underdrive) WILL NOT result in a noticeable difference in rev up/down when the engine is COUPLED TO the drivetrain. EXCEPT for the difference in overall VEHICLE weight from the change. DISCLAIMER: When I use the term "noticeable" above, I mean by a human's butt-dyno. Of course you could "determine" there WAS a difference in 1/4 mile times between the two setups, but it would still be in the noise of the measuring equipment (likely in the milliseconds). Overall - If lightening the rotating mass is SOO damn desirable, why have a flywheel AT ALL? |
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08-30-2015, 08:17 PM | #54 |
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And I could throw up a wall of text from people that know that says the exact opposite of everything you wrote. Can you find me proof of any lightweight pulley actually damaging an otherwise stock small displacement normally aspirated engine? Go for it, show actual proof these things can hurt the engine. I'll be waiting.
Seriously, engines are different, engine tech has advanced massively, why do people thinks stuff from even a decade ago is the same as it is now? Lightened mass is desirable because it makes the car function better in every way possible. Pretty sure flywheels are necessary, but since I am not an automotive engineer and am not omniscient, I could be wrong. |
08-30-2015, 08:43 PM | #55 | |
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I dont think you can have it both ways. Where is @tennisfreak when you need him? |
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08-30-2015, 08:45 PM | #56 | |
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Simply because manufacturer may have different priorities in mind (less repairs/longer life/play safer for misc potentially shitty fuels world-wide and so on). Just like with tunes some customers may decide that OE safety margin is too big, they prioritise squeezing out every bit of performance out. To each his own. As for me - i'm in the middle, not fully siding with any side. I'd love to see slight performance gains, yes. Goes along wish to lighten rest of drivetrain/rotational parts, like shaft/wheels/brakes to slightly up acceleration for this platform that seemingly has limit for na NA power. Also seen posts from engine builders/servicers about very quickly shot crank bearings on FA20/EJ20 where both LW FW & CP were used, but said that lightening just one by their book was fine. Hence if i'll ever decide on lightening pulleys/FW/CP, i'll listen to both sides and will act by advices from both of them. |
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