Edelbrock E-Force Supercharger

[BigFatFlip]

Originally Posted by FuzzyFunk

I haven't emptied my tank yet since I got the sc this past week but im around 21 MPG with about a quarter left in the tank and my driving habit has not changed.

Wow... that mpg took a horrible dive! Are they aware of this? I'd make sure they are. Hopefully its something they can tweak before official release.

Originally Posted by brady86

Pretty sure they do have a blow by system which limits boost under 2-3k which seems to me to defeat the purpose of a supercharger making torque right from the dig unless it reads throttle percentage not sure.

I believe its a vacuum actuated internal by-pass valve, so its indirectly controlled by "throttle percentage". Valve should be open at light loads (cruising) and closed during heavier loads. @FuzzyFunk, do you feel that the car is "lurchy" at all during city driving?

[sickmint79]

Edelbrock’s Eric Blakely adds, “The internal bypass allows the TVS blower to be ‘unloaded’ during constant manifold vacuum periods thereby creating less parasitic drag on the engine. By contrast, a twin-screw blower can never truly be unloaded even with a bypass, because if it is spinning, it is compressing air whether it is needed or not. A TVS2300 supercharger consumes less than one horsepower to spin when the bypass is open under normal cruise conditions.”

http://www.lsxtv.com/tech-stories/in...er-technology/

[FuzzyFunk]

@BigFatFlip Edelbrock is watching the forum closely. I don't want to start calling them and start passing judgement as I haven't had the car with the sc for over a week yet. I expect my mpg to be around 24-25 at best hopefully as I get use to being lighter with my foot. You gotta also remember that my commute is pretty damn horrible with bumper to bumper traffic with lots of stoplights from beginning to end. With a PD I expected my mpg to be lower as I've experience this with the Sprintex on my Honda Fit. Lost about 5-7 mpg on the Fit. I mean thats the trade off if you want that instant torque/power.

By "lurching" what do you mean by that exactly?

Edelbrock just invited me to a dyno day at an independent shop this weekend to see how it holds up and they will be be covering the cost. Pretty sure I'll be going

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by SkiRideDrive

Two noob tuning questions if anyone would be so kind as to offer their thoughts:

1. Resale, say you install the edelbrock kit and want to sell it seperately from the car down the line. Would everything pass to the new customer or is some sort of new license required like I have heard about Jackson Racing? (affects resale value)

2. If you installed the supercharger and the carb tune with the ECUtek module, and then uninstalled, reflashing the ecu to stock, would the warranty tech at the dealer be able to track that and deny a claim?

Thanks!

1. That applies to ALL kits and ALL cars. The Ecutek license is tied to the ECU, so the new car would need a new Ecutek license, unless it already has one.

2. Yes, they can.

[SkiRideDrive]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

1. That applies to ALL kits and ALL cars. The Ecutek license is tied to the ECU, so the new car would need a new Ecutek license, unless it already has one.

2. Yes, they can.

Good to know. Thank you!

[BigFatFlip]

Originally Posted by FuzzyFunk

By "lurching" what do you mean by that exactly?

Just trying to get a feel for how sensitive the throttle response was.

[SkiRideDrive]

Originally Posted by BigFatFlip

Just trying to get a feel for how sensitive the throttle response was.

I find the car tends to surge sometimes stock... particularly when I'm navigating speed bumps at low rpm. Kind of like a sportbike. I'm assuming that's what you are referring to by lurching.

[FuzzyFunk]

Originally Posted by BigFatFlip

Just trying to get a feel for how sensitive the throttle response was.

I would say its pretty sensitive compared to stock. Not sure how to really describe it.

So I tried to go WOT tonight with my last few gallons and took a vid. Not sure how much it really helped after I took a look at it as there was still too many cars out on the freeway. I felt no torque dip but had to ease off in the middle as there was too many cars still. Will try again another time.

[ajc209]

It appears to me the Edelbrock is a bit down on torque at low revs compared to the Cossy, at least in their dynograph.

Why has Edlebrock started the dyno graph at 2.5k?

Edlebrock:
Peak torque 186lbft
Torque at 3.5k rpm ~ 173lbft (7% down)
Torque at 3k rpm ~ 155lbft (17% down)
Torque at 2.5k rpm ~100lbft (46% down)

Cosworth:
Peak Torque 305NM
Torque at 3.5k rpm ~ 287NM (6% down)
Torque at 3k rpm ~ 285NM (7% down)
Torque at 2.5k rpm ~ 265NM (13% down)

I swear I read a post from an Engineer that did some sums and came to the conclusion the smaller TVS900 is better suited for this sort of power. Something about more low end torque because the bigger blower wont be spinning fast enoguh at low revs to work efficiently.....





Compare ot the Cossy:


Edit:

Found it:

Originally Posted by Stark Performance

I agree with your assessment of the TVS900 vs TVS1320. The real difference, however, is with the volumetric efficiency at low supercharger rpm. The slower the rpm, the lower the VE of the blower.

I modeled both the TVS900 and 1320 and the TVS900 makes more low end torque than the 1320 at the same boost. This is because the TVS900 is spinning faster than the 1320 at the same pressure ratio and is thus operating with a higher VE. That said, the 1320 does make slightly more upper mid-range torque than the 900, but the 900 wins in the area under the curve department.

Maxed out, the 900 should be able to hit right around 315whp if the system is designed well and the exhaust flows well. By that time, the investment is significant and most people would stop there. If you wanted more than what the TVS900 could accomplish, then the 1320 would be the way to go and the investment in built motor to handle the higher boost would be substantially higher which would rule out "most people". I don't think that the 1320 is a bad choice, but the sacrifice in low end torque (estimated to be around 20ft-lbs at 1500rpm and 14ft-lbs at 2,000rpm) may not offset the advantages of higher potential horsepower since few would choose to chase it.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by ajc209

It appears to me the Edelbrock is a bit down on torque at low revs compared to the Cossy, at least in their dynograph.

Why has Edlebrock started the dyno graph at 2.5k?

Edlebrock:
Peak torque 186lbft
Torque at 3.5k rpm ~ 173lbft (7% down)
Torque at 3k rpm ~ 155lbft (17% down)
Torque at 2.5k rpm ~100lbft (46% down)

Cosworth:
Peak Torque 305NM
Torque at 3.5k rpm ~ 287NM (6% down)
Torque at 3k rpm ~ 285NM (7% down)
Torque at 2.5k rpm ~ 265NM (13% down)

I swear I read a post from an Engineer that did some sums and came to the conclusion the smaller TVS900 is better suited for this sort of power. Something about more low end torque because the bigger blower wont be spinning fast enoguh at low revs to work efficiently.....





Compare ot the Cossy:

The Edelbrock dyno is on 91 octane, with no other breathing mods. The Cosworth is on 93 octane, IIRC.

Note: The Cosworth dynos are "flywheel horsepower", while the Edelbrock is "whp".

[ajc209]

Yeah I wasnt comparing direct numbers. I was comparing to peak torque for each of the respective chargers. Flatness if you like.

Abbey motorsport in the UK are waiting on a Harrop and Edlebrock to compare to the cosworth on their hub dyno. We'll see a fair comparason then.

Im shoppnig for a supercharger. Cosworth is top of my list (especially as I am british and live right next to cosworth), but if these two can handle track abuse without rising intake temps they are an interesting proposition.

[Kodename47]

@ajc209 RE: the graph RPM range, it's the difference between engine and chassis dyno. The engine dyno can do low down pulls, imagine trying to get the drivetrain momentum up at 1.5k in 4th or 5th. I would imagine that's the difference. Dyno pulls below 2.5k are largely irrelevant anyway, you're rarely below that engine speed at any point if you give it some welly, even cruising in 5th or 6th you're usually over 2.5k.

Also the dyno will show the power rapidly increase as the car settles.

You're reading into basic graphs too much and you're comparing power charts that have been done differently.

[ajc209]

Perhaps, hence my fair comparasion comment about Abbey motorsport and the hub dyno.

[dmyers]

Remember the Edelbrock is CARB approved and they provide a "warranty". It is also 100% stock everything else. I am sure it is set up "pretty safe". I would think their Stage 2 "upgrade" will be more inline with many of the other kits and from what I have read this kit has the head room to provide that as needed.