Vorshlag LSX kit

[cdrazic93]

Originally Posted by civicdrivr

And honestly, if you're understeering, just give it a boot-full of throttle and oversteer it out

another way to think about it is if your understeering, youre not driving fast enough.

[cf6mech]

Originally Posted by ZDan

FA20 may be heavy for an aluminum 2.0 four cylinder, but it is certainly lighter than a 450 lb. LS engine.
The boxer may sit relatively forward, but it's a lot *shorter* than an LS. So that even with the cylinder heads back against the firewall, there's no way the LS c.g. is aft of the FA20's, indeed it looks to be forward of it.

The FA20 tranny/engine combo is in fact 480lbs,...with the light tranny almost ending under the dash,i.e.requiring remote linkage , putting overwhelmingly the bulk of that 480lbs. indeed very forward.

"The engine block is short front-to-back (only 18" long) but it is placed in the engine bay way too far forward. So far, in fact,that more than 1/2 of the mass of the engine is in front of the front axle centerline. This is very strange, and I cannot say why the Subaru and Toyota engineers that designed this chassis and drivetrain placed the engine so far forward. They even had to use an extra long bellhousing and a crazy long shifter extension on back of the transmission to get the gear shift lever far enough rearward to mate up with the driver in the cockpit. My calibrated engineer's eyeball says this stock motor could be moved back by another ~10", which would help the front to rear weight balance significantly; in stock form we measured 56% of the weight on the front wheels, and our Alpha tester's modded FR-S has a 55%F/46%R weight bias."

[ImBatman]

Originally Posted by cf6mech

Our Alpha tester's modded FR-S has a 55%F/46%R weight bias."

101%

That's a heavy car.

All jokes aside, that's a sweet swap dude. Bring her to Houston so we can appreciate the outstanding work Vorshlag did down here too I wanna hear her rumble in person!

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Jaden

I had started to respond as to why but then stopped. It has to do with the double fulcrum that two axle vehicles have.

Think of it as two sideways L's where the long part of the L represents the frame of the car and the little part of the L representing a line going to the ground at the axle line.

The front rear bias will be based on a division of where the balance of the weight resides on the length of each L, so shifting backward a balance point on the two L's can have a significant effect on the F/R bias because it affects both the fulcrums balance points, not just one.

What I think you are getting at is how cornerbalancing works. You can adjust weight on the front right + left rear vs. front left + right rear all you want, all the way to teetering on one of the diagonals. But front/rear and left/right weight distribution are strictly a function of the fore/aft and left/right locations of masses, and there's nothing magical going on with imaginary Ls. Move a 100 lb. mass 10" aft and the vehicle c.g. moves according to that mass percentage of total and the 10" movement relative to wheelbase length, that's all.

Take a 480 lb. engine/trans centered ~6" aft of front wheel centerline, and add a ~580 lb. engine/trans centered ~12" aft of of front wheel centerline (I think this is *very* optimistic btw!) on a car that starts at ~2750 lb split 1512/1238 (55/45) and with a 101" wheelbase, and you are taking 480 lb * [(101"-6")/101"] = 451.5 lb. off of the front wheels, and adding 580 lb. * [(101"-12")/101" ] = 511 lb. back on, ending up at 2850 lb. split 1571.5/1278.5, 55.1/44.9. Hey, not bad...

Looking at the pics of where the 450 lb. LS engine winds up, and noting that the engine alone only weighs only 30 lb. less than stock engine with transmission, I would be very surprised if the c.g. of the LS/T56 is situated more than 6" aft of the stock FA20/6-speed, if that far.

Anyway, to get from stock 55/45 to 53/47 or 52/48 with LS/T56 swap is going to require other stuff going on, but yeah, I am beginning to see it happening with the battery moving from in front of the front wheels to behind the rear wheels (and maybe A/C delete?)...

*ANY*way, very impressive even to get 55/45, anything better than that I'd call a major victory

[AZFA20]

CoG........................... creating stupid arguments since Archimedes 287BC and then relentlessly resurrected by FT86Club enthusiasts

Lame

[cf6mech]

Lame indeed.....insightful point. Over all weight was and is my main concern. COG actual improving ......... a footnote.

[carbonBLUE]

@cf6mech who cares about numbers, blah blah blah. I just want to sit passenger side for like 30 seconds lol. Numbers are great but my butt dyno is the only measure that matters to me. And also the butt g meter. And go ahead and add smiles per mile to that too

[cf6mech]

Originally Posted by carbonBLUE

@cf6mech who cares about numbers, blah blah blah. I just want to sit passenger side for like 30 seconds lol. Numbers are great but my butt dyno is the only measure that matters to me. And also the butt g meter. And go ahead and add smiles per mile to that too

Vorshlag has intentions of bringing it out for Dallas Cars And Coffee when its ready.

[carbonBLUE]

This weekend?

[cdrazic93]

Originally Posted by cf6mech

Vorshlag has intentions of bringing it out for Dallas Cars And Coffee when its ready.

If you dont show up in the most american way possible i will be disappointed. Also video proof is required.

[cf6mech]

Originally Posted by cdrazic93

If you dont show up in the most american way possible i will be disappointed. Also video proof is required.

Car will be at Cars and Coffee this weekend for interested parties.

[Captain Kermit]

This gives me the horn.

Once you've got this sorted what are the odds of looking into a right hand drive version?

[Basket Case]

really looking forward to learning more details on this as in how much modification (cutting/welding) of the chassis is going to be required, etc.

[Floggin Tires]

Originally Posted by Basket Case

really looking forward to learning more details on this as in how much modification (cutting/welding) of the chassis is going to be required, etc.

If you look back in this thread it is expanded.
The tunnel support for the trans is removed and replaced. Can be done with a spot weld bit.
That is a must for this particular transmission.
Nothing serious.
That's it.