Motor Trend: 2016 Miata vs 2015 BRZ

[ajaxthebetter]

Couldn't a front engine car still have an ideal rearward bias weight ratio? IE, the LFA. Make the rear end a Trans axle.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by ajaxthebetter

Couldn't a front engine car still have an ideal rearward bias weight ratio? IE, the LFA. Make the rear end a Trans axle.

yeah but its super hard and expensive and then all the weight is all outside of the wheels. nobody is going to spend more money to make a car worse.

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by fatoni

it is slightly amusing how all we heard is the "frs is 500 lbs lighter than the 370z/mustang/genesis" but its rather absent here.

I rather think that people here understand that with the 86's wider track, longer wheelbase, roof, bigger trunk, and rear seats it should weigh 400 lbs more than a tiny uncomfortable topless 2 seat Miata. After all, the Miata is a weekend car. The 86 is a DD.

In comparison to the 86, the 370z, Mustang, Camaro and Genesis, have no excuse to be such fatties and thus deserve 500 and even 1000 lbs of criticism. What besides power do they bring above an 86 (given equal tires)?

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

I rather think that people here understand with the 86 a roof, rear seats and bigger engine might make it weigh a couple hundred lbs more than a topless 2 seat Miata. The 370, Mustang and Genesis on the other hand, have no excuse to be such fatties and thus deserve 500 lbs (and more) of criticism.

those same people should realize that having double the cylinders means you need bigger brakes, wheels, tires, drivetrain, chassis etc. im not saying that each design philosophy doesnt have an advantage/disadvantage. its just that its always "frs isnt about the numbers, its lighter than the mustang" and then its "oh well the frs is faster than the maita" and now its "oh the frs has less body roll or the test was rigged or whatever it may be"

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by fatoni

those same people should realize that having double the cylinders means you need bigger brakes, wheels, tires, drivetrain, chassis etc. im not saying that each design philosophy doesnt have an advantage/disadvantage. its just that its always "frs isnt about the numbers, its lighter than the mustang" and then its "oh well the frs is faster than the maita" and now its "oh the frs has less body roll or the test was rigged or whatever it may be"

It's not so much the extra power and necessary mods that make the other cars heavy. If that was the case, an 4cylinder Turbo Ecoboost Mustang would be within a few hundred lbs of an 86 and not 600-700 lbs heaver.

The Mustang, 370z, Gen coupe, and Camaro are fat because they're built on modified passenger car platforms (some decades old). The Miata and 86 ride on dedicated sports car chassis w/ various degrees of suspension. I get what point you're trying to make, but I don't think your example holds up.

I don't believe the test wasn't "rigged" per se. However there was easily detectable advantage provided to the Miata which ran the track with $6500 worth of brand name factory mods, while the BRZ had stock performance and cosmetic mods. Mazda certainly could have provided a base car for the test and Motor Trend could have held off making the comparo and just did a review of the Miata until they found two that more fairly and directly compared. As far as I can tell Mazda is only loaning out upgraded cars to the press. And it looked like Motor Trend got the story they were trying to spin because of it. The negative response to the performance part of the article is in regards to this.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

a tiny uncomfortable topless 2 seat Miata. After all, the Miata is a weekend car. The 86 is a DD.

That is a very subjective statement, similar criticisms have been leveled at the 86 with all the fatter cars you listed having more space and creature comforts.

Plenty of people DD Miata's and have them as their only cars.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

I don't believe the test wasn't "rigged" per se. However there was easily detectable advantage provided to the Miata which ran the track with $6500 worth of brand name factory mods, while the BRZ had stock performance and cosmetic mods.

Is a Mustang GT just a Mustang V6 with $8k of performance mods?

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

That is a very subjective statement, similar criticisms have been leveled at the 86 with all the fatter cars you listed having more space and creature comforts.

Plenty of people DD Miata's and have them as their only cars.

You're reaching (again).

A lot of people use a butter knife as a screwdriver, does that mean it was designed to be one?

If you're going to argue that Miata's were designed to be practical daily drivers in the same way an 86 was just because some people use them that way I don't know what to tell you that might actually make sense to you.

[Ganthrithor]

I don't really see the Miata and the BRZ as competitors. They're both cool, though. In my mind, the new Miata's real competition is a used Elise, since they're about the same price and very similar in terms of practicality (or lack thereof).

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Is a Mustang GT just a Mustang V6 with $8k of performance mods?

Would you run a Mustang GT vs a 4cyl Camaro and call the performance results a fair comparison?


Also the full engine upgrade Mustang GT you mentioned is not really comparable to the Club Miata performance variant (with mostly bolt-on's). Yet another transparent reach. Please stop.

[Deslock]

Originally Posted by abraxis

What do you mean by more openness? Are you thinking of the gen 1T-top? Did Mazda fix the claustrophic leg crushing cockpit and A-pillars that wrap around in front of my face? The gen3 MR is much more open than all the past Miatas IME.

Responses to each sentence:

1. Miata has shorter doors.
2. No.
3. That didn't bother me.
4. We have different opinions.

Originally Posted by abraxis

Yeah, practicality is what the FRS is for. The Miata makes a better single car solution for that if you want a drop top.

Yep.

Originally Posted by fatoni

it is slightly amusing how all we heard is the "frs is 500 lbs lighter than the 370z/mustang/genesis" but its rather absent here.

I've read many posts in this thread about the virtues of the Miata's lightness.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by ajaxthebetter

Couldn't a front engine car still have an ideal rearward bias weight ratio? IE, the LFA. Make the rear end a Trans axle.

I believe the Viper is 49f/51r, and so is the S2000. FD RX-7 was 48/52. Hell, 60s small-block Corvettes were ~47f/53r. None of those had a transaxle. When they moved the transmission on the Corvette for the C5, it was for structural reasons and not for weight distribution, which did not change from the C4's 51f/49r (Z06 was worse at 52/48). Reason: the rear transmission forced them to shove the rear wheels aft a good deal, which fully negated the weight distribution change from moving the transmission aft.
Anyway, you can get rearward weight bias in an FR car without resorting to moving the trans aft. I think it's a bad idea in general, and particularly for a small inexpensive lightweight sports car. You'd end up with a longer wheelbase, more weight, higher yaw inertia/polar moment, and you probably wouldn't move the c.g. aft much if at all.

[autograph]

personally, I am jealous of the miata's lightness and what is said of its transmission. that being said, i still much prefer the styling and size of the twins. if only the frs/brz weighed around 2400-2500lbs.

i think the new miata is awesome. but i also think that its almost "too small". same thing with the lotus elise. i think the size / styling of the frs / brz are perfect except they could be just a tad bit lower.

[Sideways&Smiling]

Originally Posted by ZDan

I believe the Viper is 49f/51r, and so is the S2000. FD RX-7 was 48/52.

Really? Sources? I've always seen the RX7 and S2K listed as 50/50.