Motor Trend: 2016 Miata vs 2015 BRZ

[ChrisV]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Exactly what I was thinking. Knowing Toyota though, they'll probably make it heavier by adding useless features/sound deadening because that's what generic focus groups will tell them to do.

If you read the "what don't you like about your car" thread, you'll see most posters in there asking for features that add weight.

[tennisfreak]

Originally Posted by raven1231

It's all about the feels man! adding 15 crank horse power would completely throw of this car's balance...

[raven1231]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Exactly what I was thinking. Knowing Toyota though, they'll probably make it heavier by adding useless features/sound deadening because that's what generic focus groups will tell them to do.

Definitely. They will likely do several interior improvements all which will likely add weight and marginally increase the output via adjusting the intake or exhaust. But, to be fair no matter what actually ends up happening with this platform everyone will sill bitch about something...

[jvincent]

Originally Posted by raven1231

Definitely. But, to be fair no matter what actually ends up happening with this platform everyone will sill bitch about something...

This.

People aren't happening unless they are bitching about something.

[tahdizzle]

That Hontard knows nothing about cars :P Just trollin'.

I agree with strat and daemano.
Miata gave them their performance trim, and Subaru had some shiney bits on it. From a price stand-point it was a fair comparison.
They could have mentioned that a 27k brz performs just as well as a 32k brz.

I don't agree with strat in that a LSD, BBS Wheels, Brembo Brakes and upgraded rubber is a marginal increase over a Base miata though.

[tahdizzle]

Originally Posted by drewbot

In a straight line accelerating only, I bet

Not even in a straight line. Manual 2005 tC ran a 15.7 in a quarter mile and about 7.5 seconds 0-60. Maybe against an Auto Twin :P

I had a 2005 scion tC that was faster, but I had 10k into it.

TRD supercharger w/ a 9.5lb pully, Quaife ATB Differentail, Hotchkis sways, TRD shocks/struts and springs, Clutchmaster stage 3 clutch and light-weight flywheel yadda yadda yadda.

My BRZ still gets around an autoX course faster though.

Edit: The tC's audio system was MUCH better than the BRZ though :P It was perfectly fine stock.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by tahdizzle

I don't agree with strat in that a LSD, BBS Wheels, Brembo Brakes and upgraded rubber is a marginal increase over a Base miata though.

LSD and Bilstein's are part of the Club package, that is the track oriented Miata offering and at $29.5k it is more expensive than the Toyobaru and you are correct, it is likely a significant increase in performance over the base ~$25k model.

The ~$3.4k Brembo package comes with brakes and BBS wheels, that is the package I am arguing is not a substantial performance upgrade, it's what pushes the Miata past the $32k mark. I don't think the 10 lbs weight reduction and added brake cooling add a significant performance advantage, it does add some performance no doubt, but not enough to reduce the 1.3 second gap significantly.

I do not know the tires offered on the Base vs. Club vs. Brembo package, they are listed as 205/45/17 Bridgestone S001's for MotorTrend's as tested, 280 treadwear to the HP Primacy's 340 treadwear (in 215/45/17). Both tires are not performance oriented imo, both tires will be replaced before serious hotlapping occurs. As I posted earlier, everybody points to rubber as an easy out, but in this case it's not like we're comparing performance tires to non-performance tires, they're both classed as 'sporty summer tires'.

[tahdizzle]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

LSD and Bilstein's are part of the Club package, that is the track oriented Miata offering and at $29.5k it is more expensive than the Toyobaru and you are correct, it is likely a significant increase in performance over the base ~$25k model.

The ~$3.4k Brembo package comes with brakes and BBS wheels, that is the package I am arguing is not a substantial performance upgrade, it's what pushes the Miata past the $32k mark. I don't think the 10 lbs weight reduction and added brake cooling add a significant performance advantage, it does add some performance no doubt, but not enough to reduce the 1.3 second gap significantly.

I do not know the tires offered on the Base vs. Club vs. Brembo package, they are listed as 205/45/17 Bridgestone S001's for MotorTrend's as tested, 280 treadwear to the HP Primacy's 340 treadwear (in 215/45/17). Both tires are not performance oriented imo, both tires will be replaced before serious hotlapping occurs. As I posted earlier, everybody points to rubber as an easy out, but in this case it's not like we're comparing performance tires to non-performance tires, they're both classed as 'sporty summer tires'.

I think the point that daemano was trying to make was that, from a performance standpoint a base brz @ 27k would still put down the same numbers.

A base miata would not put down the numbers that the tested version would have. I agree with daemano that it would be a fairer test of "Best bang for the buck" performance.

It really seems that they tried to inflate the cost of the BRZ to justify the comparison.

I agree from a price standpoint, a series blue BRZ and a Clubsport ND is a fair comparison.

As is a Premium BRZ vs. a Base ND Miata. But Mazda doesn't want that comparison.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by tahdizzle

A base miata would not put down the numbers that the tested version would have. I agree with daemano that it would be a fairer test of "Best bang for the buck" performance.

I disagree but I guess people buy V6 non-track pack Mustangs based on performance as well so I don't have much to stand on.

I would not be surprised to see the 86 have the edge in that comparison due to the Miata's lack of an LSD to lay down the best lap time. I don't understand why anybody would buy the open-diff Miata to drive at 10/10ths. However with 16" wheels and potentially less kit the Base Miata should lay down similar 0-60 times as the Club.



I never argued the reality of the rest of your post, only that from an objective standpoint the things that are offensive are next to meaningless in the big picture.

[tahdizzle]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

I disagree but I guess people buy V6 non-track pack Mustangs based on performance as well so I don't have much to stand on.

I would not be surprised to see the 86 have the edge in that comparison due to the Miata's lack of an LSD to lay down the best lap time. I don't understand why anybody would buy the open-diff Miata to drive at 10/10ths.

Hence why mazda doesn't want that comparison.

Why by a base miata when you can have a twin at the same price and have a better car.

[jvincent]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

I don't understand why anybody would buy the open-diff Miata to drive at 10/10ths.

That probably won't happen.

The open-diff Miata crowd is in their late 40's or higher and want a convertible for driving around in the summer. Very unlikely that those cars will ever see track time with their original owners.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

I don't understand why anybody would buy the open-diff Miata to drive at 10/10ths.

Originally Posted by jvincent

That probably won't happen.

The open-diff Miata crowd is in their late 40's or higher and want a convertible for driving around in the summer. Very unlikely that those cars will ever see track time with their original owners.

The most hard-core track drivers will buy the open-diff version...



...and add clutch-type LSDs

[tahdizzle]

Originally Posted by jvincent

That probably won't happen.

The open-diff Miata crowd is in their late 40's or higher and want a convertible for driving around in the summer. Very unlikely that those cars will ever see track time with their original owners.

Dis-agree with that statement entirely.

Why buy the club miata when you're just going to change everything on it anyway?

There is still a market for the base miata for those enthusiasts who like to modify. And drive at 10/10 and are looking for that extra 10th or 100th by having a mechnical diff, or penske suspension, larger/wider wheels.

For the guys are in the market for a weekend toy and don't want to modify there is the miata in base or club trim.

My point is, 1.5 seconds on that track perhaps is not enough to justify the extra ~$100 a month in financing. (Speaking of a base twin vs. a club ND)

[jvincent]

You and @DarkSunrise are probably right.

People who are going to drive 10/10 may buy the open diff and swap it out.

But the original assertion was about people driving the car as purchased, or that's how I took it.