Motor Trend: 2016 Miata vs 2015 BRZ

[tahdizzle]

Originally Posted by Sideways&Smiling

I used to think the same, but the problem with that type of thinking is...

1. There are no affordable fixed roof cars similar to cars like the S2000 and Miata. (When I say similar, I mean the engine placement, weight distribution, extremely good suspension design & geometry, and overall agile driving feel.)

2. Hard tops are available.

Sure, other cars might be a bit more rigid and have better aero stock vs stock with no hard top, but those cars can't provide the same driving experience (even excluding the top down aspect), so they aren't really comparable...

Besides, the S2000 has a very rigid chassis for not having a roof. It's more rigid than other great Japanese sports cars (Silvias, RX7s, etc.), which are arguably already rigid enough, especially when caged (based off of their performance in motorsports)...

I'm not sure how rigid the new Miata is in comparison, but I'm sure it's much improved over prior ones... and, again, aero can be improved with hard tops for those who track their cars and care about it.

[thill]

Originally Posted by AyJay

Also, the new hot car usually causes reviewers from auto publications to gush. You don't get their true feelings until a year or 2 out when the next hot car comes out and they have to find something to criticize in order to award the new car a prize.

Very true, this is nothing new. In a year the very same reviewers will bitch about the lack of power on the MX-5. I found some of the comments contradictory as well.. Some of this is also clickbait. They use these dramatic statements to get people like us to click and comment.

I love what Mazda did which was to reduce weight and overall size of the car while also reducing power. Pretty gutsy and goes against the grain of what other manufacturers are doing (bigger, heavier, more power, etc). I was skeptical about the power reduction, but the performance of the car speaks for itself and clearly Mazda nailed it.

[tahdizzle]

there is also the current z4m coupe, but those are a bit more pricey.

[Chad11491]

Originally Posted by tahdizzle

[tahdizzle]

if you don't like the shooting brake style thats your opinion.

but that m-coupe is sex.

[gramicci101]

The Z4 coupe is sexy. The Z3 coupe looks like a tennis shoe.

[tahdizzle]

Defintely looks like a clown shoe :P

But it performs!

[Rampage]

Originally Posted by Pat

I think I disagree with nearly everything in this paragraph. Especially about a car, ANY car, cornering flat and considering it a design flaw. Man, the new GT3 RS must be a real POS, huh?

Read the context in which I wrote that paragraph. Put a 16-18 (or your average incompetent driver) year old kid in a GT3, turn off the nannies and see how long he/she lives. Put the same kid (or average incompetent driver) in a Miata and you will probably get him back in one piece. And no, HP does not have everything to do with that.

[Rampage]

Originally Posted by tahdizzle

BMW could not hardly sell those things when they made them. Why is it that every time a new sporty car is released people start screaming for the shooting brake?

[tahdizzle]

they were defintely niche cars.

[brzaapi]

Maybe I am nuts or have no taste. But I really like the rendering and the idea of that Hatch BRZ. More room for bigger tires. Better weight balance, although it will add weight period. But who cares, I like the idea of it.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Sideways&Smiling

1. There are no affordable fixed roof cars similar to cars like the S2000 and Miata. (When I say similar, I mean the engine placement, weight distribution, extremely good suspension design & geometry, and overall agile driving feel.)

RX-8, and BMW E36/E46 M3, even regular 3 and 5 series are competent with E30/E36 prices still in the Miata realm.

I love the M coupe, it fits the bill, there are three near me for under $18k in better condition than most S2000's at any price but I get why it's a turnoff. Two show up regularly at the AutoX I run, they do pretty solid. Aaaand now it's on the list for if I ever win the lotto.

Considering it's very difficult to find good S2000's for less than $15k and very nice ones are commanding >$20k, the 86 fits your criteria as well, there are more than a few under $20k in decent condition, easy choice if you trust Subieyota to build a car that will last >150k miles.

Sure there's a weight penalty on the BMW's and RX-8 affecting the agileness, as they targeted luxo-sporty buyers, but if you're comparing stock Miata's then I think they're on par if not better in terms of balance, feel, and suspension, you can slap coilovers and stiff swaybars on just about anything afterall.

[Kelbyat07]

https://www.yahoo.com/autos/2016-maz...424689332.html

Here's another review

[Sideways&Smiling]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

RX-8, and BMW E36/E46 M3, even regular 3 and 5 series are competent with E30/E36 prices still in the Miata realm.

I love the M coupe, it fits the bill, there are three near me for under $18k in better condition than most S2000's at any price but I get why it's a turnoff. Two show up regularly at the AutoX I run, they do pretty solid. Aaaand now it's on the list for if I ever win the lotto.

Considering it's very difficult to find good S2000's for less than $15k and very nice ones are commanding >$20k, the 86 fits your criteria as well, there are more than a few under $20k in decent condition, easy choice if you trust Subieyota to build a car that will last >150k miles.

Sure there's a weight penalty on the BMW's and RX-8 affecting the agileness, as they targeted luxo-sporty buyers, but if you're comparing stock Miata's then I think they're on par if not better in terms of balance, feel, and suspension, you can slap coilovers and stiff swaybars on just about anything afterall.

I don't really consider the BMWs or the FR-S/BRZ to be classed in the same way. They aren't front-mid engine, and their suspension is a compromise. They are sports coupes with polished handling, but they are also "normal" cars in many ways. They don't have the same sophistication in terms of weight balance & suspension design.

The RX-8 is definitely close (I mean, it's a long wheelbase, 4-seat, coupe version of the NC Miata), for sure.... but it's also heavier, bigger (4 seats), and not particularly attractive when it comes to the engine. I would agree that the handling performance is definitely there though. I would say the RX7 is even closer and probably the closest thing available to what I described. I very much want Mazda to make a new RX7 or high performance coupe version of the Miata.