Motor Trend: 2016 Miata vs 2015 BRZ

[drewbot]

Originally Posted by Cope52

You guys have lower taxes in CN? Free health care? Lord Almighty!

It's sort of hard to do a full apples to apples comparison.

Province-to-province (state-to-state) tax brackets are different, and health coverage is a bit different too.

In the end, I think he is right, we have a higher percentage applied to taxes, and also generally a higher sales tax on goods also. But our taxes, luckily, are not as crazy high as some European countries...

[strat61caster]

From Jalopnik's review: http://jalopnik.com/the-2016-mazda-m...car-1707333736

This is a car that costs about $30,000. There is no new car at any price that is this much fun on the road at speeds where you won’t die. There is no new car on track or an autocross that is this accessible and easy to drive confidently at the limit. And yes, I’m including sweethearts like the FR-S/BRZ and Fiesta ST. There is just something endlessly joyous about the Miata that the other cars lack. The FR-S/BRZ are great cars, but they feel clinical. They were designed not with the car itself in mind, but with a specific buyer in mind. The Fiesta ST is a little spitfire, but it’s still an economy car that has been dooded up to be fast.

Love it, have no desire to trade in and am happy the new Miata seems to be doing the job. Hopefully I'll con a test drive in a few months when they start sitting on dealer lots for more than a few days.

[Cope52]

^^Funny I had an RX-8, which shares the NC platform, and I think the BRZ offers more personality, although I understand what TTAC meant by "the RX-8 makes love to the road whereas the FR-S masters it. Could it be that the ND has gone back to the purity of the NA?

[df.dima]

I actually find it amazing that ND beat the expectations of 0-60 that most predicted, given the specs given out. Very nice job by Mazda, definitely a fan of what they are doing lately.

Now all they need to do is come up with a 2+2 coupe based on the ND and that would be very interesting.

I've used FR-S backseat exactly once to date. I could give up the backseat, but trunk space + seats down allow me to haul some major supplies. Love doing grocery shopping with it .

[JS + BRZ]

Originally Posted by df.dima

I actually find it amazing that ND beat the expectations of 0-60 that most predicted, given the specs given out. Very nice job by Mazda, definitely a fan of what they are doing lately.

Now all they need to do is come up with a 2+2 coupe based on the ND and that would be very interesting.

I've used FR-S backseat exactly once to date. I could give up the backseat, but trunk space + seats down allow me to haul some major supplies. Love doing grocery shopping with it .

Trunk space + backseats down...

That's a game changer.

[Sideways&Smiling]

Man, the body roll in that Jalopnik video looks horrendous... and that's the club version?!

[TRACE_on]

There are two additional things not mentioned in the article that are imo advantages of the twins over the new Miata.
1. Styling - although I prefer the ND to NC in terms of looks, the twins look much cooler.
2. Aftermarket - the twins have one of the biggest aftermarkets of any new car.

[bedabi]

Looking at all the acceleration number I'm almost surprised that the BRZ has a slightly higher 1/4 mile trap speed. This has always been the measure of acceleration I pay attention to the most. 0-60 or trap time never meant much for me. The only time I ever really go full throttle is when I'm already at speed on a highway to merge/pass or on a track. I don't think I ever launched by BRZ from a stop at RPM's higher than 2k.

I think the conclusions are pretty spot on. If I could afford a summer-only car, I'd get this Miata in a heartbeat. But I can't so the BRZ is for me.

[ajaxthebetter]

New car reviews are always strange. Don't get me wrong, the Miata finally looks pretty decent and is probably a blast to drive, but the body roll looks a tad wild. Maybe a professional driver could gut it out, but a lot of amateurs, myself included, would probably drive the flatter car faster.

Back to new car reviews and their oddities. The statement about how better tires didn't make the BRZ faster is a bizarre statement to make, and obviously wrong. A lot of the "problems" they describe with the BRZ seem to be directly related to the Primacies. Exit speed. Entry speed. Rolling on marbles. Etc.

Strange. For what it is worth, it also seems like both Jalopnik and Motor trend have an obvious bias in that Pobst purchased one (or has in the past--their sentence was ambiguous), and the Jalopnik writer is a self proclaimed Miata lover.

Impressive car. Impressive weight. Reviews are a bit strange.

[thill]

The new mx-5 is brilliant. Gonna be tough not to want one...

[HUNTERANGEL121]

Originally Posted by ajaxthebetter

New car reviews are always strange. Don't get me wrong, the Miata finally looks pretty decent and is probably a blast to drive, but the body roll looks a tad wild. Maybe a professional driver could gut it out, but a lot of amateurs, myself included, would probably drive the flatter car faster.

Back to new car reviews and their oddities. The statement about how better tires didn't make the BRZ faster is a bizarre statement to make, and obviously wrong. A lot of the "problems" they describe with the BRZ seem to be directly related to the Primacies. Exit speed. Entry speed. Rolling on marbles. Etc.

Strange. For what it is worth, it also seems like both Jalopnik and Motor trend have an obvious bias in that Pobst purchased one (or has in the past--their sentence was ambiguous), and the Jalopnik writer is a self proclaimed Miata lover.

Impressive car. Impressive weight. Reviews are a bit strange.

Maybe the body roll acts as a way to put more weight on the outside wheels, making a progressively handling car for when it steps out on you?

Sent from my toaster

[totopo]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Good article! The Miata is shaping up to be a strong competitor to the Twins. Its weight is impressive, and its acceleration advantage until ~94 mph makes sense given its lighter weight (i.e. torque to weight advantage) and aero/horsepower disadvantage at higher speeds. It's also generating higher grip levels, although I suspect that's due to wearing MP summer tires.

Two let-downs with the Miata:

1) Body roll, even with factory suspension package - not sure why Mazda always includes body roll in every generation Miata. If it's rolling that much on MP summer tires, it may need suspension upgrades to run sticky EP summer tires at the track.

2) Less handling flexibility - Lago's comment that the body roll and lack of power means you have less mid-corner adjustability than in the BRZ. This is one of the things I love about tracking my FR-S.

Still seems like amazing fun. For me, the Miata's lack of a coupe option eliminates it though as I don't want add a roll bar just to bring it to the track. I do hope the new Miata lights a fire under Toyota/Subaru's rears to keep improving the Twins.

Lastly the comparison with the MK7 GTI was sad. As an owner of a MK6, I was hoping the new MK7 with PP would be a bit closer in terms of driving fun to cars like the Twins and Miata, but it sounds like VW hasn't closed the gap at all. MT would have been better off comparing a hot hatch like the FoST.

Body roll doesn't really mean all too much though it has minor advantages and disadvantages. The advantage is that with a unequal length double A arm you can have more camber change at both tires, which is good. The disadvantage is the car takes longer to transition and has less steady and predictable handling until it gets to the transition.

The twins have a lame suspension set up, so roll doesn't do too much for it, whereas the miata has a great layout so can use the extra camber change.

[ajaxthebetter]

Originally Posted by HUNTERANGEL121

Maybe the body roll acts as a way to put more weight on the outside wheels, making a progressively handling car for when it steps out on you?

Sent from my toaster

Yes perhaps. They would say that for the Miata, and while it may the the case, Pobst and all the other reviewers would say the RCF has body roll and that though body roll equals grip, it doesn't inspire confidence. RCF vs M4 video as evidence, in which they rave about M4 and trash the F, yet M4 barely beats it. Seems contradictory, though one has nearly 500 hp and one has much less, so maybe body roll in a 500 hp car is frigfrightening and in a 180hp car it's fun. I wouldn't know.

Doesn't Pobst say in the article that the Miata steps out oddly quick, thus you have to keep it hooked up? I'll have to read again.

I still think most normal drivers would pilot a flatter car quicker.

[Rampage]

Originally Posted by ajaxthebetter

Yes perhaps. They would say that for the Miata, and while it may the the case, Pobst and all the other reviewers would say the RCF has body roll and that though body roll equals grip, it doesn't inspire confidence. RCF vs M4 video as evidence, in which they rave about M4 and trash the F, yet M4 barely beats it. Seems contradictory, though one has nearly 500 hp and one has much less, so maybe body roll in a 500 hp car is frigfrightening and in a 180hp car it's fun. I wouldn't know.

I think that has very little to do with HP and more with the fact that some body roll in a 2300LB car is much less intimidating than body roll in a 3800LB car.

Supposedly Mazda has engineered the body roll leverage to add grip in the suspension. Another plus is that body roll will make you feel like you are going faster than you really are. Less skilled drivers will slow down. That may be part of the design flaw in the FT86 in that they corner pretty flat and do not warn young and less skilled drivers in time to avoid that spin into a curb, tree, mailbox, ditch, etc.