front and rear sway bar opinions

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by KoolBRZ

I'd call a 1991 3000 GT VR4 a sports car. I don't want it to ride like a camry, I just want a seat that respects me as a human being. My VR4 was MUCH more comfortable than this car, in part because it had a MUCH more comfortable seat. It was also a much heavier, more powerful car. That said, I believe Toyota and Subaru could sell a lot more of these wonderful cars if they would just make the seats more comfortable. Try smacking your fist into the seat bottom of this car, then into the seat bottom of ANY other car. The backrest is fine, the suspension in a seat comes from the seat bottom. It's the difference between sleeping on a futon and a temper-pedic.

You have a very strange understanding of sports cars... a sports car is a car that is all about the driving experience and providing a great feel for the road. The VR4 is more of a grand tourer, which is more comfortable but still sporty. You wouldn't want to see how badly a bone stock FRS/BRZ (on stock tires) would leave the VR4 behind through corners, it would be embarassing.

Soft seats will take away road feel, and you most definitely need to feel the road with your butt. You're only "connected" to the road through the seat and the steering wheel, if you want good feedback you need it from both parts.

Is your next suggestion going to be air ride for the seat (like an air ride cab in an 18 wheeler)?

If you want a sporty car from Scion that's a lot more comfortable, go trade your car in for a tC.

[KoolBRZ]

Originally Posted by wparsons

You have a very strange understanding of sports cars... a sports car is a car that is all about the driving experience and providing a great feel for the road. The VR4 is more of a grand tourer, which is more comfortable but still sporty. You wouldn't want to see how badly a bone stock FRS/BRZ (on stock tires) would leave the VR4 behind through corners, it would be embarassing.

Soft seats will take away road feel, and you most definitely need to feel the road with your butt. You're only "connected" to the road through the seat and the steering wheel, if you want good feedback you need it from both parts.

Is your next suggestion going to be air ride for the seat (like an air ride cab in an 18 wheeler)?

If you want a sporty car from Scion that's a lot more comfortable, go trade your car in for a tC.

So, how much "road feel" do passengers need? FWD cars suck in the rain or snow. Once they lose traction it's all over. I like getting a little sideways in the rain, and I love sliding in the snow. I also had a 1987 200sx v6 RWD coupe which weighed about the same as my BRZ and was also much more comfortable. Why not get road feel from the wheel and seat back, and comfort from the seat bottom? They would sell more cars that way.

[venturaII]

Originally Posted by KoolBRZ

FWD cars suck in the rain or snow.

Dude. For the love of God and all that is holy....put the glue down.

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by KoolBRZ

I also had a 1987 200sx v6 RWD coupe which weighed about the same as my BRZ and was also much more comfortable. Why not get road feel from the wheel and seat back, and comfort from the seat bottom? They would sell more cars that way.

That 200sx would also be left miles behind in any corner.

If you honestly think they would sell more cars with a softer seat bottom, you're out of your mind. If they make the bottom soft but the back is still hard, you're still going to feel the bumps. You don't sit 100% vertically, so you will feel bumps from the back of the seat too.

Based on all your complaints, why didn't you get something like a BMW 1 series? They're softer, squishier and still rwd.

[KoolBRZ]

You never answered my question. Why would a passenger need to feel the road?

If anything the passenger seat should be super-soft, so that when a couple takes the car for a test drive and the husband drives while the wife sits in the passenger seat, she thinks it is a nice-looking comfortable, economical, car, and the husband thinks it is firm, precise steering, feel-the-road, sports car.

Since I have heated seats, my seat is actually firmer then the seat in your car, unless you have heated seats also. It's maybe 5% firmer, but not enough to want to change seats over with an FR-S. I do plan on finding a seat which will swap over though. I'd like to have a seat that will bolt right onto the BRZ backrest, so I can keep that bolstered backrest. But, I'll probably just pull both seats out and store them in the attic then bolt in some softer seats with a compatible size and bolt pattern. throw on some seat covers which come close to matching the stock color and I'm done making it a comfortable car to drive.

[Racecomp Engineering]

1. Cusco often does make swaybars that are softer than stock for cars. Doesn't surprise me...sometimes rally guys go for them.

2. It's important to remember that a 20mm front bar doesn't give you the same roll resistance as a 20mm rear bar. They aren't directly comparable like that. They have motion ratios like the springs, and also have different lengths anyway.

3. I wouldn't recommend the same size swaybar front and rear for this car.

- Andy

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by KoolBRZ

You never answered my question. Why would a passenger need to feel the road?

If anything the passenger seat should be super-soft, so that when a couple takes the car for a test drive and the husband drives while the wife sits in the passenger seat, she thinks it is a nice-looking comfortable, economical, car, and the husband thinks it is firm, precise steering, feel-the-road, sports car.

Since I have heated seats, my seat is actually firmer then the seat in your car, unless you have heated seats also. It's maybe 5% firmer, but not enough to want to change seats over with an FR-S. I do plan on finding a seat which will swap over though. I'd like to have a seat that will bolt right onto the BRZ backrest, so I can keep that bolstered backrest. But, I'll probably just pull both seats out and store them in the attic then bolt in some softer seats with a compatible size and bolt pattern. throw on some seat covers which come close to matching the stock color and I'm done making it a comfortable car to drive.

Do yourself (and all of us) a favour and do something to quantitatively test how much of a change the softer seat makes. I think you'll be very disappointed to find how little softer foam will do to the overall ride quality. 1" of soft foam is going to compress with your weight on it, and provide very little cushioning over bumps. Soft seats make it comfy for long drives, but it doesn't absorb big bumps.

Want to do a test without ruining your seats, go take a soft boring car for a drive and hit a big bump. Look to see if your hands feel like they're lifting up away from your butt or not. If not, the seat isn't absorbing the bump. If the seat were absorbing the bump, your butt would be moving deeper into the seat, further (in a vertical direction) away from your hands.

I would also advise against bolting part of one seat to the base of another, you could be making a VERY unsafe seat by doing so. There is a ton of engineering and testing to make sure the seat is safe as a whole system (including the front and seat airbags), messing with part of that could put you in a lot of danger in an accident.

[86_Insider]

DanBRZ91, if you haven't seen it there is another sway bar post here http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88613

Message me if you would like help with your suspension setup. I have many many years of real behind the wheel knowledge. Lots of different pieces and components that all need to work together and compliment each other for max performance.

[Hyper4mance2k]

Originally Posted by KoolBRZ

If anything the passenger seat should be super-soft, so that when a couple takes the car for a test drive and the husband drives while the wife sits in the passenger seat, she thinks it is a nice-looking comfortable, economical, car, and the husband thinks it is firm, precise steering, feel-the-road, sports car.

You're lucky my girlfriend isn't on this forum. And you think I give you a hard time... Do you have any idea what year it is? I can't believe you would publicly post such a sexist comment...