4th gen ND Mazda MX-5 Miata

[funwheeldrive]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Generally speaking any part that sees a load will experience a measurable stress. Most materials have a fatigue limit where given enough stress cycles the part is statistically doomed. However, a part that is over-designed can be strong enough that the expected stress is so small it theoretically never wears and fails, this part is either A. heavy because extra mass was added to reduce the stress at the critical area or B. expensive because high quality materials that are stronger or more durable were used.

I'm not an engineer, but wont the low curbweight and low horsepower help with the overall durability in other aspects? I can't imagine Mazda would cheap out on materials considering how important this car is for them.

Am I wrong to think the ND miata will be more durable than a Camaro or Mustang?

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

I'm not an engineer, but wont the low curbweight and low horsepower help with the overall durability in other aspects? I can't imagine Mazda would cheap out on materials considering how important this car is for them.

Am I wrong to think the ND miata will be more durable than a Camaro or Mustang?

Of course, that's one of the reasons why it has 4 lug wheels, less mass moving around means that the forces on a noticeable amount of components are lower meaning they can be made lighter with similar durability to the larger heavier components on the Camaro Mustang.

It's all in the engineering and there's no way they can go through and prove it without divulging a lot of the methods and R&D they've spent lots of money developing. It's not uncommon for auto manufacturers to go out and buy their competitors cars and completely tear them apart to try and learn things, there was a story a few years ago about some Japanese executives checking out a Hyundai and they played with the glovebox for 5 minutes muttering to each other before running off, story went they were impressed about how they removed the 'click' noise of the latch mechanism and worried that they need to start throwing money at the problem.

That's why we put so much stock in brands and their history, there's really no way to tell who put the extra effort into the 2016 models until we're 5, 10, 20 years on.

It is literally gambling when comparing the '16 Miata to the Camaro and Mustang, however I know I see a lot of NA Miata's on the road and very few Fox Body Mustangs.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Generally speaking any part that sees a load will experience a measurable stress. Most materials have a fatigue limit where given enough stress cycles the part is statistically doomed. However, a part that is over-designed can be strong enough that the expected stress is so small it theoretically never wears and fails, this part is either A. heavy because extra mass was added to reduce the stress at the critical area or B. expensive because high quality materials that are stronger or more durable were used.

This is not easy to find in a source but rather obvious after several courses in material science, design, and stress analysis.

tl:dr Cheap, light, and strong - pick two.

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

tl:dr Cheap, light, and strong - pick two.

Replace with "relatively light" and that statement is correct. A Miata obviously has lighter parts than a bigger car because its parts will see less load.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

Replace with "relatively light" and that statement is correct. A Miata obviously has lighter parts than a bigger car because its parts will see less load.

The statement doesn't need qualifiers to be correct. It's a bumper sticker.

[SirBrass]

Originally Posted by Rampage

Yeah, I know where you are coming from. I followed the twins from inception and even drove up to the intro at NAIAS in Detroit to see them before release. Same thing with the new MX-5. I have seen one in metal at Daytona.

I love lightweight sports cars and get excited when a new one comes along. I did not buy a twin (did talk my son into buying a FR-S though) and I will not buy a MX-5. I am perfectly happy with my MR2 Spyder and all the mods I have done to it but I am also still a huge fan of these new entries into the market. And yes, I will drive one too.

Don't blame you. If I had a great MR2, I'd keep that instead of getting the twins or a Miata

[Rampage]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

It is literally gambling when comparing the '16 Miata to the Camaro and Mustang, however I know I see a lot of NA Miata's on the road and very few Fox Body Mustangs.

I am not sure that that is a fair comparison though. Camaros and Mustangs make for a much more versatile car than a Miata. I think that they are often the primary car for a owner and fill both the fun car and DD roles. As such, they take a beating and are routinely exposed to the harsh elements as well as accumulating high mileage and wear.

On the other hand, Miatas are more likely to be the fun car or the weekend car. They are much less likely to be the primary mode of transportation and quite often get to be "garage queens" that only come out to play on nice summer days. It is much more common to see Miatas that are 10-15 years old with under 70K miles than it is to see a like year Mustang or Camaro with those kind of miles.

Not to say there are not exceptions.

[babydriver]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Generally speaking any part that sees a load will experience a measurable stress. Most materials have a fatigue limit where given enough stress cycles the part is statistically doomed. However, a part that is over-designed can be strong enough that the expected stress is so small it theoretically never wears and fails, this part is either A. heavy because extra mass was added to reduce the stress at the critical area or B. expensive because high quality materials that are stronger or more durable were used.

This is not easy to find in a source but rather obvious after several courses in material science, design, and stress analysis.

That is why titanium is good!

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Rampage

I am not sure that that is a fair comparison though. Camaros and Mustangs make for a much more versatile car than a Miata. I think that they are often the primary car for a owner and fill both the fun car and DD roles. As such, they take a beating and are routinely exposed to the harsh elements as well as accumulating high mileage and wear.

On the other hand, Miatas are more likely to be the fun car or the weekend car. They are much less likely to be the primary mode of transportation and quite often get to be "garage queens" that only come out to play on nice summer days. It is much more common to see Miatas that are 10-15 years old with under 70K miles than it is to see a like year Mustang or Camaro with those kind of miles.

Not to say there are not exceptions.

In the land of sunshine and Miata's, >200k are more common than ones with <70k.

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/cto/4991753967.html
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/cto/5008414077.html
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/cto/5013563397.html
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/cto/4989562171.html

I skipped the really janky one and the riced one and these were the 4 that showed up based on a mileage filter of >200k on craigslist, I can guarantee there are more.

And the two similar vintage Mustangs that showed up with the same allowance that there are more out there:
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/cto/5012530164.html
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/cto/5010986030.html

I still think it's fair, I see a fox body everyday, but it's the same one near my work. Pretty sure I see a different NA Miata every day of the week.

All anecdotal bullshit, but the Miata has a great track record, both are fun cars with the proper mindset.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by babydriver

That is why titanium is good!

Except it's brittle and expensive and difficult to machine.

There should be some fun 3D printed titanium stuff hitting consumer market within the next decade though.

If my car survives the next decade and I somehow get a bunch of money to play with I really want to do some Ti suspension components on the Toyobaru, should be easy by then to just call up a machine shop send them the files and have them churn it out in a few weeks.

They'll probably be worth more than the car at that point

[Rampage]

I will throw in one more variable that I thought of after making that last post.

Mustangs and Camaros, when old, end up in the hands of post puberty males who beat the crap out of them, mod them and destroy them.

Old Miatas end up in the hands of middle aged men (and some ladies) who maintain them and even baby them or turn them in to much loved toys. Many young, immature guys typically avoid them because the cars carry the stigma of "girl" cars or "gay" cars and lord knows they cannot be seen in something like that. Those Miatas tend to be spared some more of the abuse and neglect that pony cars suffer.

I am not saying that there are not exceptions. I like Mazdas and have owned several although I have never owned a Miata because I am simply too big to comfortable sit in one. I am just not comfortable with the Miata to Camaro/ Mustang comparison as a example of light weight durability to heavy durability. I think there are too many other variables at play.

Maybe a better comparison would be the Miata to the Corvette? Although there, you have an initial price issue that is also a bit unfair.

[Sideways&Smiling]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Except it's brittle and expensive and difficult to machine.

There should be some fun 3D printed titanium stuff hitting consumer market within the next decade though.

If my car survives the next decade and I somehow get a bunch of money to play with I really want to do some Ti suspension components on the Toyobaru, should be easy by then to just call up a machine shop send them the files and have them churn it out in a few weeks.

They'll probably be worth more than the car at that point

Not ENTIRELY titanium, but still: http://www.splparts.com/2013-fr-s-1/

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Rampage

I will throw in one more variable that I thought of after making that last post.

Mustangs and Camaros, when old, end up in the hands of post puberty males who beat the crap out of them, mod them and destroy them.

Old Miatas end up in the hands of middle aged men (and some ladies) who maintain them and even baby them or turn them in to much loved toys. Many young, immature guys typically avoid them because the cars carry the stigma of "girl" cars or "gay" cars and lord knows they cannot be seen in something like that. Those Miatas tend to be spared some more of the abuse and neglect that pony cars suffer.

I am not saying that there are not exceptions. I like Mazdas and have owned several although I have never owned a Miata because I am simply too big to comfortable sit in one. I am just not comfortable with the Miata to Camaro/ Mustang comparison as a example of light weight durability to heavy durability. I think there are too many other variables at play.

Maybe a better comparison would be the Miata to the Corvette? Although there, you have an initial price issue that is also a bit unfair.

you realize thats entirely an assumption right? there are plenty of girls driving around in mustangs and miatas are the most raced car in the world

[Rampage]

Originally Posted by fatoni

you realize thats entirely an assumption right? there are plenty of girls driving around in mustangs and miatas are the most raced car in the world

Yep, I get that but you can even see it on post on this very forum, Honestly, how many young guys do you see behind the wheel of a Miata on the street? My experience has been that most are driven by middle aged guys and some women/girls. That comes from living in Ohio and Florida. About the only place that I have seen a bunch of younger guys in Miatas was on the Tail of the Dragon. Even there there was a higher percentage of young guys in S2000 than Miatas.

I am sure that on the racetrack it is an entirely different story but even though many. many Miatas have been raced it is still a small percentage of all the Miatas sold over the years.

If I could fit in one I might have owned one but I didn't so I bought another car that carries a stigma with the same crowd but that had more room inside.