Truth about using STI Brembos on the twins

[calispec]

Originally Posted by lead82

Were your OEM rotors drilled or slotted? I would not track my car very much, so a less costly alternative to combat brake fade would simply be to get slotted rotors and better fluid. Better for me to do that than to spend money for the swap and add mass just for the single benefit of better brake wear.

Slotted and drilled rotors are kind of a thing of the past. The reason to drill a rotor is to decrease the weight. But for every hole you put in the face it creates a stress raiser and a place where a crack can form. Slotting the face was used to allow any gas to escape from beneath the pad and to clean the face of the pad at the same time. Pads these days don't degas so really there isn't much of a reason to drill or slot your rotors.

In my opinion there is no reason to change the OEM calipers unless you have seen a problem with them. Change your pads, fluid, lines, and maybe rotors first. If you see fade then go bigger. If it ain't broken don't fix it.

The only reason I chimed in was because there was soooooo much speculation and zero hard data in this thread. It gives these calipers a really bad name. If you do it right you can and WILL see a benefit.

That being said. I wish there was a thread on how HORRIBLE other BBK's were and that most people will NEVER see the potential of a good kit and how 99% of the people who buy them get them purely because it "looks cool" or they think they need it.

If all u are in it for is for looks. Then more power too you. Get a rocket bunny. Put 12" wide wheels under it with an insane amount of rubber. You'll never be able to use that rubber with that 200bhp but hey. It looks great. And you are happy. That's all that matters. It's your car.

The hot chick you drive by will think it's a $100k car and you might catch a real winner. Probably not. But there is always a chance.

[lead82]

Originally Posted by calispec

Slotted and drilled rotors are kind of a thing of the past. The reason to drill a rotor is to decrease the weight. But for every hole you put in the face it creates a stress raiser and a place where a crack can form. Slotting the face was used to allow any gas to escape from beneath the pad and to clean the face of the pad at the same time. Pads these days don't degas so really there isn't much of a reason to drill or slot your rotors.

In my opinion there is no reason to change the OEM calipers unless you have seen a problem with them. Change your pads, fluid, lines, and maybe rotors first. If you see fade then go bigger. If it ain't broken don't fix it.

The only reason I chimed in was because there was soooooo much speculation and zero hard data in this thread. It gives these calipers a really bad name. If you do it right you can and WILL see a benefit.

That being said. I wish there was a thread on how HORRIBLE other BBK's were and that most people will NEVER see the potential of a good kit and how 99% of the people who buy them get them purely because it "looks cool" or they think they need it.

If all u are in it for is for looks. Then more power too you. Get a rocket bunny. Put 12" wide wheels under it with an insane amount of rubber. You'll never be able to use that rubber with that 200bhp but hey. It looks great. And you are happy. That's all that matters. It's your car.

The hot chick you drive by will think it's a $100k car and you might catch a real winner. Probably not. But there is always a chance.

Definitely agree with your statement on drilled rotors. I've seen the stress distribution around the holes and I know a lot of companies will not drill them correctly, further decreasing strength around the drills.

However, I still think slots are really useful and I suspect I will be using some later on. Of course, like you said, I won't unless I actually see a significant fade problem. My first intentions are pads, stainless steel hoses, and fluids.

[Racecomp Engineering]

I'm surprised this is still being talked about. Here's a post from jamal in late 2012 on the bias change with the full kit:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...9&postcount=37

I think I posted some actual numbers somewhere in that thread but I can't find it.

Here's a quick note on the bleeders:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...2&postcount=29

From 2012...

It's not speculation. Now, what happens in practice may vary from user to user when it comes to pad wear and opinions on using different pads to deal with the bias will vary too.

- Andrew

[gramicci101]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

From 2012...

We don't read history, therefore we are doomed to repeat it.

[Racecomp Engineering]

Indeed.

- Andrew

[Jive Turkey]

everybody dies.

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by Jive Turkey

everybody dies.

I didn't die in 15,000 miles, and I had the fronts and the rears. I must have gotten lucky.

[BunnyRZed]

Originally Posted by mrha

After reading the posts it just seems like some people think that putting brakes that are perfectly safe on a WRX STI on to a BRZ would cause the car to crash instantly.

I think there's nothing wrong with people who want to install STI calipers onto their twin. I do think its wrong to create fear mongering when you don't have all the facts. Facts not opinions.

Agreed, you'll be fine if you just swap out the front Brembo calipers and upgrade rear calipers with matching or better pads. I've tested mine at multiple autox events and toge runs and did not have any problem. Toyota also does this on their FR-S for the celebrity/pro race for the Toyota Grand Prix.

http://articles.latimes.com/2013/mar...oyota-20130315

[continuecrushing]

Originally Posted by Jive Turkey

everybody dies.

Originally Posted by King Tut

I didn't die in 15,000 miles, and I had the fronts and the rears. I must have gotten lucky.

What if you're already dead?

Originally Posted by BunnyRZed

Agreed, you'll be fine if you just swap out the front Brembo calipers and upgrade rear calipers with matching or better pads. I've tested mine at multiple autox events and toge runs and did not have any problem. Toyota also does this on their FR-S for the celebrity/pro race for the Toyota Grand Prix.

http://articles.latimes.com/2013/mar...oyota-20130315

Although I don't know that I agree with EVERYTHING in this thread, a car prepped by Toyota for the track isnt exactly the same as us bolting on mods...we dont know everything they've done to fit the mods that they have.

[BunnyRZed]

Originally Posted by Shutter

What if you're already dead?



Although I don't know that I agree with EVERYTHING in this thread, a car prepped by Toyota for the track isnt exactly the same as us bolting on mods...we dont know everything they've done to fit the mods that they have.

Everything they done was in the article link I posted. I would suggest checking with Toyota for specifics if you are worried and get back to us with details.

[continuecrushing]

Originally Posted by BunnyRZed

Everything they done was in the article link I posted. I would suggest checking with Toyota for specifics if you are worried and get back to us with details.

not worried. But to blindly follow #becauseracecar isnt always the best practice.

The article mentions brake upgrades, but not specifics.

[BunnyRZed]

Originally Posted by Shutter

not worried. But to blindly follow #becauseracecar isnt always the best practice.

The article mentions brake upgrades, but not specifics.

If they did not mention specifics then you should find out and enlighten us. I'm just simply sharing my real world experience with the front Brembos caliper upgrade. Blindly listening to vendors who are trying to sell you BBK for more than 3X-4X the cost isn't always best practice either. Looks like you're one of those vendor since I do see the link to modbargains.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by BunnyRZed

Agreed, you'll be fine if you just swap out the front Brembo calipers and upgrade rear calipers with matching or better pads. I've tested mine at multiple autox events and toge runs and did not have any problem. Toyota also does this on their FR-S for the celebrity/pro race for the Toyota Grand Prix.

http://articles.latimes.com/2013/mar...oyota-20130315

Originally Posted by BunnyRZed

Everything they done was in the article link I posted. I would suggest checking with Toyota for specifics if you are worried and get back to us with details.

Those cars are more prepped than you think, and much more extensively than that articles would indicate. Alas, I cannot disclose... but that's how a TRD version of the car should come from the factory.

[Metabrz]

Originally Posted by BunnyRZed

If they did not mention specifics then you should find out and enlighten us. I'm just simply sharing my real world experience with the front Brembos caliper upgrade. Blindly listening to vendors who are trying to sell you BBK for more than 3X-4X the cost isn't always best practice either. Looks like you're one of those vendor since I do see the link to modbargains.

You make a great point. Of the comments posted here, the main objectors who have technical knowledge (opposed to the sheep who think the world will end we'll all die) all seem to be selling the aftermarket "approved" Kits.

No disrespect to any of them of course, they have a business to run.

What grinds my gears is the 'new car tax' premium we are being asked to pay for these kits.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the Brembo STi brake packages offered on the WRX STi and BRZ Ts look the same because the caliper bodies are the same but are specific to each car because of a different size bore for a different size piston.

Prospeed in Oz will sell Brembo STi kits f/r for AUD3500. They don't state it but I imagine these are off the WRX STi (GV/GR) and are not the BRZ TS Brembo kits that are for sale on Japanparts for the astronomical amount NZD6300 for the kit - plus shipping plus duty.

The difference in the parts? Sweet fuck all.

This is called TAKING THE PISS.

Similarly, my mechanic can build a new complete front/rear AP BBK for 'older cars" for NZD2500. The cost to me if I buy the 'factory kit' from the local distributor is NZD8500. WTF?

All the vendors on here seem to want us to believe they care about our safety and driving experience more than they care about the margins they make on these new products.

Why not ask Brembo/AP to drop the 'new car tax' on calipers that are the best part of 10 years old and are really only different in terms of piston sizes?

I expect the response will be "R&D costs....blah blah "

If the mathematical templates for brakes on other websites are reasonably accurate, I imagine Brembo/ AP would simply establish requirements by plugging the cars metrics into their computers, test a prototype or three, then bam, its on the market at 3 times the price of the caliper kit for the last flavor of the month. Lets face it, if the WRX STi caliper works on that car, its going to work on the BRZ and look really good while doing it.

Feel free to tell me I'm wrong.