Which is the most comfortable coilover on brz/frs??

[ryoma]

at this point, I would just play with the settings. start at full soft and work your way up to see what works best.

[Moto-P]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Have you considered getting the dampers properly adjusted by a professional?

For those of you who are experiencing the ride to be harsh, please check that the Sports-i are set to proper preload, and ride height, then adjust the dampers to full soft, where I made my baseline for the spring set, and normal road use. There isn't a reason to go higher in damper settings if your use is primarily on the roads (and even raceways) of USA where the surface are harsh, and uneven. The reason the USA version is called "Moto-Spec by RSR" is that I was the one who spent 6 months re-testing the Sports-i on USA roads and raceways, and not on the very different glass-smooth roads of Japan. This is why the units are differently valved than Japanese market Sports-i and I've spent a lot of time to tune it well for our roads and tracks as well.

The dampers were re-valved and spring rates chosen again, to accommodate our road better without sacrificing much, and extending the control and tactility at casual Sunday motorsports activities as well.
For the standard setup Sports-i, the damper and spring sets are ideally chosen to give daily drivers a very compliant and predictable ride, and comfort that results from it.
The dampers can be set from full soft to about halfway up for the standard 6kg/mm front and 7kg/mm spring sets. If you opt to use the optional springs up to 9kg/mm on either ends for re-tuning to race use tires or personal taste, the shocks will gradually increase rates with steeper rise on the rebound side and uniformly up beyond that 50% adjustment valve level. For more serious and dedicated track only cars with not sports summer tires but R compounds and such, I have recently re-valved and packaged another set called "Sports-i Club-Racer" that include specific changes to sacrifice more street role in favor of Sunday racing uses. But that's not necessarily BETTER since all drivers have a different role for his/her car, and this latter set wasn't meant to be a street spec, as much as Sports-i accommodates.

To adjust them to FULL SOFT, this is done by first turning the setting to clockwise to full hard, then clicking back 36 stops at front and 24 clicks back counterclockwise in the rear.

This will set it to softest setting on the Sports-i for FRS/BRZ. This is fine for street use. At this setting the compression rate is slightly lower than even stock, with very compliant high speed damping (for soaking ruts, vibrations, and road irregularity) while low speed damping for larger loads are very well controlled with good balance of compression and rebound rates.

The RSR Sports-i are made with in-house assembled mono-tube shocks and not of the more generic twin-tube like many others. The fluids inside the Sports-i are also very high grade lubricants, that can work compliantly with very close tolerances of the internal valve clearances.
This allows for a much more customized tailoring to each application RSR makes, and are better mated for each car using specific parts list and tuning.

Anyway, let me know if you have any other questions, as I am always happy to answer them. I might not be very prompt with replies here on this forum as I am not a marketing specialist who scour forums all day long. So please write to me via email, casually, to moto@club4ag.com.

I'm pretty confident that I can help you dial the FRS/BRZ to where you might like it, and this is very different for every person.

[Moto-P]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

You're actually the first person I've ever heard this from. For $1700 and the level of performance the Sports-i's provide I don't know if there's anything that touches their road comfort/performance/cost mix.

I think you might actually have preferred something sprung softer like STs which are sprung at 5k front /6k rear IIRC.

While spring rates do affect the overall low speed motion of high cornering loads and larger undulations, the small quick inputs (high speed motion over ruts and harsher noises) won't really change perceptually with springs. These are mostly the character of compression rate of shock absorbers (dampers). So going to slightly lower rate springs usually won't change comfort levels or handling for that matter given the dampers are constant and the same.

Small changes in spring rates are critical when you're chasing trophies in motorsports, and drivers can drive cars at the limits to effectively make use of these small changes, and balance the tune of dampers, corner weight, alignment, tire types, pressures, and overall setup of joints and sub-frame tuning. It is because these parameters are total, and comprehensive relationship of all the other parts of the car, it is critical that coil-overs too, should be chosen carefully to accommodate the role you intend for your car.

However, on street driven cars looking for modest change in character to tune towards a generally more sporting role, in a broad sense, shocks and joints (bushings) are what affect it more, along with very importantly tire choice.

[Moto-P]

Originally Posted by wootwoot

Stock wheels and tires. Poly bushings in control arms. RacerX rear control arms and Whiteline toe arms. Subaru crash bolts. A few other things...

The stock tires, while they are very predictable, and nice mannered under abuse, are not overly grippy at all.

So combining the polyurethane bushings and various hard-jointed control arms might make the car a bit peaky overly responsive, despite the greater feedback. This is because alignment changes of the suspension arm as it strokes is more pronounced, and isn't mated well to the soft sub-frame bushings that support these arms to the main uni-body.

The joints of the FRS are set fairly softly because it is a fairly light car, and changing this will cause a pretty noticeable difference in comfort as well, as the light car is now easy to transmit shocks and jitters, noises, and vibration, as well as harsh feel over bumpy roads.

As with anything, one should always consider the role of the car, and choose and plan precisely with full knowledge of what each parts do to the car, so that the choices compliment and add to where you want to take the car.

[Moto-P]

Originally Posted by wootwoot

Lol... I was the one that asked the same question in that thread. And that's how mine are set up.... And I still feel they are lacking. Oh well. I'll buy better next time I guess.

Hello @wootwoot I am sorry you find it "lacking"

Perhaps, you can elaborate on what you find lacking, along with all the mods and notable specs of your suspension and chassis, or alignments and tire choice? Also what you intend to aim as your goal for the characters you wish to have in the vehicle. I can then try to help?

[Moto-P]

Originally Posted by wootwoot

I feel the same way about my iSports. There is no high speed dampening. I feel like the car is going to launch itself off the road when I hit bumps at highway speeds. Rather disappointed in them honestly....

With all due respect, by high speed damping, we usually refer to as absorption capability of undulations, vibrations and other small but sharp inputs to the suspension, and the Sports-i on softer settings, are very compliant, and more so than most of the sports oriented shock absorbers, so it does and should keep the car a bit more stable than most others over rough pavement under cornering loads. I tuned it this way precisely because the streets and raceways in the USA are much harsher than those of Japan. So when you say with the feeling of likely launching off the road, perhaps you can set them on softer settings, and also review all the rest of the components on the car.

If you have harsher bushings, or arms and rods in the suspension that have a rigid mount, this will contribute a lot to harshness and unpredictability on modest tires, and over undulating roads.

Also with the FRS/BRZ the nature of the car being very wide tread, and short in length, light in weight, inherently has this trait, which is also shared one way or another by cars similar like S2000, Miata, Boxter/Cayman, FC3S and FD3S RX7. So while it can be curtailed, this peaky responsiveness, the overall trait with ship-steady stability will not be a trait similar to cars with much more heft and length. Add to this, the FRS/BRZ is tuned and designed with certain amount of precision, which is also what causes instability too if the driver input is harsh. This is on one end, what makes the car fun to drive with tactility and willingness to snap and turn quickly.

RS-R Sports-i was developed for the FR-S with a more milder focus to settle the car well over undulating roads, and give as much control in a well-mannered way to make it easy to drive, and comfortable. Most other suspension which are tuned for higher performance envelope will exhibit more jitters and sharper feedback to make the car busier and much more capable of harsher responsive motions that can tire a driver if he's not driving to the limits.

FRS/BRZ's rear suspension has a high angular changes (dynamic alignment changes) over its stroke range too, giving it a fun character to toss the car about, but can be twitchy in most daily driving for those accustomed to more mundane cars too. So carefully limiting the travel carefully and ideally tuning the static alignment is also key in getting the car to behave mildly if so desired.

[wootwoot]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

That's about perfect for DD. I don't know what to tell you in regards to the back end getting loose on fast corners. Mine feels practically glued, even on So Cal's horrible highways. Last question would be what tires are you running? Like @CSG_Mike suggested, I would definitely take it to a pro that is familiar with your coils. If it's not setup properly than the only thing I can think of is that there is a chance that you got something defective.

Stock tires for a while. Just upgraded to MPSS yesterday.

[wootwoot]

Originally Posted by ryoma

at this point, I would just play with the settings. start at full soft and work your way up to see what works best.

I did that on the stock tires. Started full soft and then moved up two clicks everyday until it was way too harsh. Then back down....

[wootwoot]

Originally Posted by Moto-P

The stock tires, while they are very predictable, and nice mannered under abuse, are not overly grippy at all.

So combining the polyurethane bushings and various hard-jointed control arms might make the car a bit peaky overly responsive, despite the greater feedback. This is because alignment changes of the suspension arm as it strokes is more pronounced, and isn't mated well to the soft sub-frame bushings that support these arms to the main uni-body.

The joints of the FRS are set fairly softly because it is a fairly light car, and changing this will cause a pretty noticeable difference in comfort as well, as the light car is now easy to transmit shocks and jitters, noises, and vibration, as well as harsh feel over bumpy roads.

As with anything, one should always consider the role of the car, and choose and plan precisely with full knowledge of what each parts do to the car, so that the choices compliment and add to where you want to take the car.

Subframe bushigs are upgraded as well. I have no hard bearings anywhere.

[Kostamojen]

Ya, you have to be careful with replacing bushings on a DD. If you replace the wrong bushings at the wrong time, you can wind up with undesirable consequences.

[wootwoot]

Originally Posted by Kostamojen

Ya, you have to be careful with replacing bushings on a DD. If you replace the wrong bushings at the wrong time, you can wind up with undesirable consequences.

That should only cause increased NVH. What I feel I am experiencing is a perceived lack of dampening in various conditions.

[wootwoot]

This thread has officially been derailed in a major way. It was never my intention to get this far from the original topic. I am happy to continue the discussion here, or via PM. I do appreciate all the words of advice.

[wootwoot]

Originally Posted by Moto-P

For those of you who are experiencing the ride to be harsh, please check that the Sports-i are set to proper preload, and ride height, then adjust the dampers to full soft, where I made my baseline for the spring set, and normal road use. There isn't a reason to go higher in damper settings if your use is primarily on the roads (and even raceways) of USA where the surface are harsh, and uneven. The reason the USA version is called "Moto-Spec by RSR" is that I was the one who spent 6 months re-testing the Sports-i on USA roads and raceways, and not on the very different glass-smooth roads of Japan. This is why the units are differently valved than Japanese market Sports-i and I've spent a lot of time to tune it well for our roads and tracks as well.

The dampers were re-valved and spring rates chosen again, to accommodate our road better without sacrificing much, and extending the control and tactility at casual Sunday motorsports activities as well.
For the standard setup Sports-i, the damper and spring sets are ideally chosen to give daily drivers a very compliant and predictable ride, and comfort that results from it.
The dampers can be set from full soft to about halfway up for the standard 6kg/mm front and 7kg/mm spring sets. If you opt to use the optional springs up to 9kg/mm on either ends for re-tuning to race use tires or personal taste, the shocks will gradually increase rates with steeper rise on the rebound side and uniformly up beyond that 50% adjustment valve level. For more serious and dedicated track only cars with not sports summer tires but R compounds and such, I have recently re-valved and packaged another set called "Sports-i Club-Racer" that include specific changes to sacrifice more street role in favor of Sunday racing uses. But that's not necessarily BETTER since all drivers have a different role for his/her car, and this latter set wasn't meant to be a street spec, as much as Sports-i accommodates.

To adjust them to FULL SOFT, this is done by first turning the setting to clockwise to full hard, then clicking back 36 stops at front and 24 clicks back counterclockwise in the rear.

This will set it to softest setting on the Sports-i for FRS/BRZ. This is fine for street use. At this setting the compression rate is slightly lower than even stock, with very compliant high speed damping (for soaking ruts, vibrations, and road irregularity) while low speed damping for larger loads are very well controlled with good balance of compression and rebound rates.

The RSR Sports-i are made with in-house assembled mono-tube shocks and not of the more generic twin-tube like many others. The fluids inside the Sports-i are also very high grade lubricants, that can work compliantly with very close tolerances of the internal valve clearances.
This allows for a much more customized tailoring to each application RSR makes, and are better mated for each car using specific parts list and tuning.

Anyway, let me know if you have any other questions, as I am always happy to answer them. I might not be very prompt with replies here on this forum as I am not a marketing specialist who scour forums all day long. So please write to me via email, casually, to moto@club4ag.com.

I'm pretty confident that I can help you dial the FRS/BRZ to where you might like it, and this is very different for every person.

Preload was never touched. Car was professionally aligned and corner balanced. I put several calls in to RSR regarding this process before I installed anything.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by wootwoot

No idea where to go for that. I suppose you would offer that service to me but you are on the other side of the state. Corner balance and alignment were done professionally. PM me what, if anything, you can do.

Originally Posted by ryoma

at this point, I would just play with the settings. start at full soft and work your way up to see what works best.

Try this first.

And you're correct, there are very, very few people out there who know how to properly adjust dampers and actually do it professionally, and even less that do it at this level of motorsport.