The end of tuning: Car Companies Say Home Repairs Are 'Legally Problematic'

[Tromatic]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

This is argument is exactly what corporations want you to do. Not talk about a real attainable solution, but instead default to governance as team sports. It's human nature to do this and corporations exploit it. The "other" isn't a political party, it's the group that is representing itself the most. Corporations.

Then the next time you make a point about money buying government, don't forget to mention Soros. Make me ruler for a day, I guarantee I can fix the problem. The stench of dead bodies will fade with time.

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by churchx

DAEMANO: how about good old lobbying system? (where it's manufacturers, that will pay for such ruling, not common electorate. And apart from even older bribing system). And we shouldn't forget Stalin's quote - "it's not about how vote, it's about how votes are counted"

Now were getting somehwere! Corporations are participating in the government, they use their money, the lobbying system (which has a place in democracies), and campaign finance laws to ensure congress writes the bills they want and votes them into law. Corporations essentially over represent themselves by ensuring laws are written in their favor. They use the revenue earned by selling to the public, to represent the interests of their executives and shareholders. This is why Corporations are not people, and money is not free speech. This is the crux of Citizens United.

Citizens can undo this by learning civics and using their logical minds and not allowing their political decisions to devolve into team sports political discourse and be ruled by classism, bigotry, and xenophobia. Citizens can learn to identify when these methods are being employed by corporations and their bought and paid for politicians and the zealots that buy into it. Citizens can then nominate and elect politicians (especially congresspersons) that are not on a payroll and that will represent their true constituencies. To undo the power of corporate lobbying and the rest of the above people must learn, and then vote in every election they can.

[alan.chalkley]

I can see where we are headed with this.
How many times do we throw our computers out because the software has become obsolete and the latest software won't run on our perfectly running hardware.
Our cars will be running perfectly and some "brightspark" will declare our ECUs obsolete and the new ECUs will only work on new cars , thus forcing us to regularly buy new cars.
The ultimate planned obsolescence marketing tool.

[mav1178]

Only an issue for those flashing the stock ECU.

-alex

[Target70]

Originally Posted by alan.chalkley

I can see where we are headed with this.
How many times do we throw our computers out because the software has become obsolete and the latest software won't run on our perfectly running hardware.
Our cars will be running perfectly and some "brightspark" will declare our ECUs obsolete and the new ECUs will only work on new cars , thus forcing us to regularly buy new cars.
The ultimate planned obsolescence marketing tool.

eh, the computer is just the computer, the car still has wires sensors and motors. Even with proprietary code, the computer just operates the engine. All the rules in the world won't stop some company AEM? from selling a "universal" computer, that is or is almost directly plug and play, with a like factory like tune available online, in an overseas server if necessary.

[Tromatic]

"Classism, Bigotry, and Xenophobia" sounds like the 16 Democrat platform. I like it! How odd
that some of the very people you want in Government were 2010 Tea Party freshmen.

[Tromatic]

Originally Posted by Target70

eh, the computer is just the computer, the car still has wires sensors and motors. Even with proprietary code, the computer just operates the engine. All the rules in the world won't stop some company AEM? from selling a "universal" computer, that is or is almost directly plug and play, with a like factory like tune available online, in an overseas server if necessary.

DMCA can affect overseas hosted sites as well.

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by mav1178

Only an issue for those flashing the stock ECU.

-alex

So you mean simply replacing the ECU with a generic like @Target70 mentioned below would be a work-aorund.

Originally Posted by Target70

eh, the computer is just the computer, the car still has wires sensors and motors. Even with proprietary code, the computer just operates the engine. All the rules in the world won't stop some company AEM? from selling a "universal" computer, that is or is almost directly plug and play, with a like factory like tune available online, in an overseas server if necessary.

Or even a piggy-back device (like Unichip or PROcede) that intercepts/extracts sensor signals, translates them via a table from whatever the owner/tuner desires, and then loads those new signals into the stock ECU so that it behaves as we want.

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

So you mean simply replacing the ECU with a generic like @Target70 mentioned below would be a work-aorund.

The problem that the car companies are putting forth is this:

The ECU code is our own proprietary design. We have the rights to this.

It's similar to a "Microsoft lays claim to the source code of Windows, you mod it you are in violation of the ToS as a user"...

I can see where the argument is from. To me, it's a problem confined to those with a stock ECU and using OFT or other type of ROM tune.

Two ways to go around this:
1) run true standalone that is not confined by the stock ECU code
2) prove (in court or otherwise) that the ECU "code" is not a copyright issue. Unless someone wants to donate several years of their lawyer time to litigate, the best we can do is complain until someone like the EFF or other group(s) litigate on our behalf.

-alex

Edit: I think the people writing these articles suck at not explaining the scope of this.

[eggncheese]

From the last line of the article,

"It's just a myth that the manufacturers are the only people who can make improvements," he said. "That's why maintaining that choice is really important."

This is the whole idea behind open source software. If we can't improve upon a software, we can at least find bugs, loopholes, and errors that may have been missed by the designers. Point being that being able to look at the code and modify allows these companies essentially free labor (in the form of testing and possibly recoding) and things they can use in future versions of their product to improve upon it.

[Target70]

Originally Posted by Tromatic

DCMA has killed plenty of OCONUS web sites.

pirate bay is still up. When they get shut down they just change locations and keep on rolling. Or torrents in general, dark web, block chain, etc.. technology will always always evolve faster than bureaucrats.

[Tromatic]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

So you mean simply replacing the ECU with a generic like @Target70 mentioned below would be a work-aorund.

Or even a piggy-back device (like Unichip or PROcede) that intercepts/extracts sensor signals, translates them via a table from whatever the owner/tuner desires, and then loads those new signals into the stock ECU so that it behaves as we want.

If you read the comments at the link, you'll notice they want that to be illegal too. They want it to be against the law to modify the software of the car, in any way.

ETA: LOL, even backing up your stock ROM with an OFT would be a violation according to your good corporate friend of Obama, GM.

ETA: More f-ing LOL: Ban tuning, for the children.

[Tromatic]

Originally Posted by Target70

pirate bay is still up. When they get shut down they just change locations and keep on rolling. Or torrents in general, dark web, block chain, etc.. technology will always always evolve faster than bureaucrats.

True. However, I am fully fed up with having to do that, when hanging a 'crat from a tree would be so much easier.

[steve99]

Originally Posted by Tromatic

If you read the comments at the link, you'll notice they want that to be illegal too. They want it to be against the law to modify the software of the car, in any way.

ETA: LOL, even backing up your stock ROM with an OFT would be a violation according to your good corporate friend of Obama, GM.

Its probably illegal already, the code in ecu is protected by software keys which had to be cracked to read or write to ecu.

Legistrator dudes mandated car manufacturers allow access to obd error codes on all vehicles in standard format.

Think this is just some car company wombat, mouthing off wanting to go back to the good old days where everyone is locked out so only dealers can do maintenance. probably because they are loosing market share on maintenance to independant shops , maintenance is good steady money in the cut throat low margin car industry.