Boosted BRZ/FR-S vs 997 Carrera S

[strmshadow84]

Originally Posted by Re~Mix

Agreed. I still like the older gen 987 and I happen to think the gearing on the newer Porsches is a bit off. When you can hit 110 in 3rd its no longer fun. I like to shift

Anxiously awaiting next summer when I can start looking for real!

Completely agree. I feel like the gears are too long and then 6th is too short.

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by strmshadow84

Completely agree. I feel like the gears are too long and then 6th is too short.

I think this is a problem for a lot of cars though. I don't think Corvette style wide ratios are the way to go, but relaxing the spacing a tiny little bit seems like a great idea for a road going car. On the Porsche in particular, I don't really understand the thinking behind having gears 4-6 being 1.13, 0.97, 0.84. That's stupidly close and useless. The extra 1mph you get on a super high speed track doesn't even really translate to a significant lap time improvement. Relaxing the spacing to 18% rpm drops would not even reduce available power and get you 1.13 0.93 0.76, which is way more sensible for the street.

That said I heard part of the motivation for the tall 1st gear is to prevent wheelspin, since that's a liability. Fair enough I guess. Still, not a reason to cripple 6th gear's utility.

[Turbowned]

I posted this thread towards the end of December and the car I pictured is still for sale in CT... I should make them a stupid offer and see what they say, lol. Gotta put the BRZ back to stock before I trade it in or sell it, though.

[philooo]

I own a 2003 porsche 996, and an FRS. I can simply tell you that both cars drive very similar, but the porsche has more power and more importantly the engine in the back make it a blast for city driving because of the infinite grip from standing start. The 996 are quite a bargain if you ask me. I decided to keep both, and beat the FRS on the track.

[OICU812]

I've been testing a TON of cars lately. Last month likely 16 long test drives...

Boxster GTS
Cayman S
Cayman GTS
BMW M4
Jag Ftype
Audi S5

Let me tell you this. I love way my FRS looks and for the money honestly nothing in the market touches it.

Im mid 40s' I relived my modding days and have put in just under 60K non boosted, I know crazy hey... When I look at last 6 months I was seriously considering going turbo and all supporting mods, but then im into Cayman cost territory, so that got me thinking and well being an older dude you just do that more when it comes to money decisions I've found...

Anyhow I will share....

The refinement of the 981 series Porsche is astounding and nothing short of pure enjoyment. YES they are a ton of cash when you option them out 100% but good god man, they look great ride like a champ even on rough roads and honestly there is zero to mod or need to do if you select up the options you want day one.

I researched resales, warranty and have now in last month spoken to many many owners, and long term ones as well, basically you should bank on a grand a year to cover your services for the first 5 years, and certainly if going to keep past the 4 years warranty then for sure get extended as to repair they are costly. That said they are reliable, I have seen many over 10 years old with some pretty big mileage and running and looking just fine.

If I was looking for the mix of power and luxury and a year round vehicle however it wouldn't be a Porsche, it would be the Audi S5 amazing car in almost every way and considerably less, however its not a (toy dream car) is all but that would be my second choice next to a Cayman 981 series believe it or not. My least favourite was the Jag actually, just was not a fun car for me at least aside from the glorious exhaust notes. M4 was fast as hell, but again I didn't want to mess with it after speaking to many owners and reading up on horror stories and lastly well, every 3rd car here is a BMW why be a sheep right?

I am REALLY considering buying a GTS Cayman, absolute georgous car. I would love to also keep my FRS but their resale is so poor and yea it feels like giving it away, but after driving such good performance cars with the power and the connectivity I really am not certain I'd really ever drive the FRS anymore. There is a HUGE difference and I can say that as I've been experiencing it. For those that have not tested any of those level cars, I suggest not to, even if for curiousity, it ruins you trust me.... In some ways I wish I had not tried them now I just want to spend more dough then I realistically should????

[OICU812]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

I'm used to slow cars so I think even the 981 base Cayman has maybe a little too much power (pretty good from 1k-4k rpm, but there's not many chances to hit the rev limiter), but that car is pretty fun and the engine sounds like angels singing. If you're shopping in 2016 you should be able to find a used one at a slight discount, like low 40s for a lightly optioned one I would guess. If you grab a 2014 model (sold in 2013 essentially) then someone else has basically exhausted all of the required ripoff dealer maintenance for the warranty for you too.

I would personally ditch the 18/19/20" wheels and try to find a lightweight set of 17s as the first mod because I don't like how the wheels seem to "crash" into bumps and holes in the pavement. The ride comfort is fine but it makes it feel a little clumsy and "heavy". My MR2 on uncomfortable Tein springs with a comparatively high proportion of unsprung mass didn't feel like that.

I drove several with 20" and rode perfectly fine and I consider roads here to be absolutely horrible, also I am VERY critical of ride quality and noises. The key is to get PASM 100% worth it when off as its active in background for comfort, it makes night and day difference. I tested one with and without and it was instantly noticeable to me and my passenger.

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by OICU812

I drove several with 20" and rode perfectly fine and I consider roads here to be absolutely horrible, also I am VERY critical of ride quality and noises. The key is to get PASM 100% worth it when off as its active in background for comfort, it makes night and day difference. I tested one with and without and it was instantly noticeable to me and my passenger.

Haha it's also a mental thing, 20" wheels are ludicrous when you only need 17" to clear the brakes. It's form over function, but I don't care for the gangsta rim look and would rather have cheaper tires and lighter wheels with lower rotational inertia.

Electronically controlled damping force is definitely something I want to experience though. I haven't sat in a PASM equipped car before.

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

That's what I thought until I did a lot of reading and found very very few 996/997.1 owners have engines lasting much over 100k miles. The IMS is a stupid design to begin with and adds considerable mass. The cylinder walls are weak and the rod bolts are weak, which leads to blown short blocks.

Yeah, that's just flat out 100% false when talking about the 997 and 987 which both have the M97.

The 987/997 have a few bits of "dinosaur" that kind of bother me and they are honestly pretty heavy cars for their size as the curb weights are underestimated

By all means, show me another sub 3000 lb sports car with 300 hp.

Originally Posted by Grip Ronin

I took the easiest solution. Drive a frs and work at porsche as a mechanic lol.. 981 s is an amazing car. Its so much fun. 987 not so much

987 not so much? The 987 is a more pure and basic driving experience. Smaller car with a shorter wheelbase and steering feel that a 981 can only dream about. Unless you option out a 981 with the E-Diff it's handling is no better than a 987. I've driven my 987 back to back with a 981 and the steering feel is night and day.

Originally Posted by Tiz

I did not pick a Porsche because these cars are too impracticable. With a Pcar you cannot go skiing (2 persons, 2-3 pairs of skis, luggage for 1-2 weeks). With a Pcar you cannot drive to a track with 4 additional wheels (slicks) in your trunk.

You most certainly can go skiing in a 911 or Cayman S. All Porsche sports cars can be outfitted with a roof rack (for the skis). And there's plenty of trunk space in both cars for luggage for a long trip for 2 people. Track tires...you got me there But if a BRZ had wheels/tires as large as a Porsche they wouldn't fit inside either

Originally Posted by Re~Mix

Agreed. I still like the older gen 987 and I happen to think the gearing on the newer Porsches is a bit off. When you can hit 110 in 3rd its no longer fun. I like to shift

The gear certainly is too tall, even on the 987. 75 mph in 2nd gear, 110 in 3rd.

Originally Posted by TemeCal

While this is true, failures have still occurred with the retro-fixes (ceramic). The possibility of failure has been greatly reduced, but it is still present. This is the exact reason I went with a 9A1 engine in mine.

With that said, I do think IMS issues have been a bit overblown. If I did own one with an M97 engine, I'd be proactive and replace it with the better bearing. A little added cost, but much better peace of mind.

Out of curiosity, does yours have the "fix"?

Mine does not have the fix. Only a handful of Cayman owners have experienced IMS failure - the chances of it happening are so so small.

And for all the haters out there, keep in mind that Porsche lost a class action lawsuit regarding the M96 and IMS bearings. It included all 996s and 986s. Not 997s or 987s. Do you think the lawyers didn't want to include them? Of course they did, more money for them. But there are so few IMS M97 failures that they couldn't be included in the lawsuit.

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

Yeah, that's just flat out 100% false when talking about the 997 and 987 which both have the M97.

By all means, show me another sub 3000 lb sports car with 300 hp.

I thought the M97 still had the weak cylinder wall problem? I know the M97 IMS bearings weren't an issue. They still bother me because the intermediate shaft seems like an idiotic design in the first place. The same way the early M96 bothers me because of the idiotic on/off VVT that is chain tensioner actuated.

What I meant was for 2 seaters (911 back seats only fit toddlers) without a whole lot of luggage space, 3000lbs seems like a lot to me, even with an H6. The M97 being heavier than average for its power output doesn't help. They have pretty heavy chassis to start with.

Don't get me wrong I see the merits of the cars, but the 987.2 just sounds more appealing than the 987.1. New engine design that's lighter, more powerful, and doesn't have the bad legacy of the M96. But I would probably go nuts on the weight reduction mods if I had money.

[Tgionet]

[OICU812]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

Haha it's also a mental thing, 20" wheels are ludicrous when you only need 17" to clear the brakes. It's form over function, but I don't care for the gangsta rim look and would rather have cheaper tires and lighter wheels with lower rotational inertia.

Electronically controlled damping force is definitely something I want to experience though. I haven't sat in a PASM equipped car before.

Understood and for record I agree. However it was explained to me like this..

P went away from 17-18" simply cause of structural strength. Also to meet performance expectations of enthusiasts for a lower sidewall and better cornering car in the end. I tried a boxster with 18" wheels and meaty tires no PASM, then a Cayman with 20" wheels and PASM same ride no joke. I do myself as well mentally agree the looks of a 18-19" max wheel diameter "looks better" however fact is ride is in fact same I couldn't tell the difference.

[Tgionet]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

Electronically controlled damping force is definitely something I want to experience though. I haven't sat in a PASM equipped car before.

Don't, or you'll need it. It's that good. PDCC is pretty amazing as well.

[Grip Ronin]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

987 not so much? The 987 is a more pure and basic driving experience. Smaller car with a shorter wheelbase and steering feel that a 981 can only dream about. Unless you option out a 981 with the E-Diff it's handling is no better than a 987. I've driven my 987 back to back with a 981 and the steering feel is night and day.

The handling is different but i prefer the 981 still, it has less feedback but still gives me the confidence to push them. The electronics are an interference but its the engine and pdk that probably make up most of the enjoyment.

[Turbowned]

Not nearly as big as the pile of blown Subaru motors would be if they put 'em all in one place I worked at a Subie dealer for 2 years and in that span they must have replaced dozens of motors. My friend Mike is a tech at the dealership I worked at and he's doing 3 motor jobs just this week. They're extremely reliable, except when their engines grenade before 30k miles... very odd.

Originally Posted by Tgionet