SCCA Solo C Street Discussion

[coneracer30]

I find it interesting that everyone discounts the OEM shocks. As if an unprepped car can't win. I can't honestly find much wrong with them. Certainly not enough that I'm leaping at the chance to spend the money to replace them. Even Lee at Koni thought that they were some of the best matched OEM dampers he had seen.

[simpleisbest]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

kewl.


what is the asterix next to some of the car names for?

EDIT: did some excel shit... if I'm reading these right looks like:


...Sean's getting old

....Wouldn't want to do a Mexican standoff against Manfred

....the RX8 is quicker than the FRS off the line..... technique or tires?

Yeah, I gotta fix my grandma launching
Left a bucket load of time out there on just the starts...

Made the mistake of slapping on untested pads that I didn't really bake in enough until the tail end of the event. Still need to get used to the new brake feel as they are not as aggressive as my previous pads, but I think I can work with after another event.

[renfield90]

Originally Posted by MPot

Thanks for doing the leg work on this. I think you did quite well at the Pro for stock shocks and last year's tires.
I did not see a letter from Steve Marston posted, just a copy of an unsigned one from Steve Reynolds that did not have a Toyota/Scion letterhead. Is a copy of the Marston letter available? And, can we assume that you have sent a copy of the letter and the information from the internal Scion site to the SEB?
Thanks again,
Mike

I have sent nothing to the SEB. When I have a chance I'll hit up Sean to figure out what's been sent if anything, and what should be sent. We're concerned that people have emailed Doug/SEB without all the facts (like Doug saying the quickshifter is legal, when it is not) and whatever we send should very clearly and unambiguously state the facts of the situation.

[bslate3]

I decided to try out X class with Equipe Rapide and managed 5th in X and 7th overall out of 124.

Makes me wonder how much better Koni yellows will help.

Er 3-29-¹5:

[simpleisbest]

Originally Posted by renfield90

I have sent nothing to the SEB. When I have a chance I'll hit up Sean to figure out what's been sent if anything, and what should be sent. We're concerned that people have emailed Doug/SEB without all the facts (like Doug saying the quickshifter is legal, when it is not) and whatever we send should very clearly and unambiguously state the facts of the situation.

I emailed SEB, but prior to the letter from Toyota. I asked if I could submit the letter as an addition to my previous letter, but was told I needed to re-submit a new letter. Will shoot one off this week with all the info collected so far.

[renfield90]

Originally Posted by SeanRTR

renfield90
I assume you were on the old Rivals, and not the Rival S? Did anyone at this event have the new Rival-S? I'm surprised you put in all the work to get the springs/bars changed but stayed with worn out tires.....although I thought my Rivals were still quite fast even at the wear bars. You changed the springs, but stuck with the OEM shocks? How did the car feel in the transitions with the new springs?

I had a tire deal fall through (no fault of the seller) and it happened right around the time the Bridgestone came out. Then Hollis and Dietz finally got released to start talking about the Rival S and I thought "I'm just gonna wait for the dust to settle...and in the mean time, if I can score a free tire or two, so much the better."

The car was awful in transitions Saturday AM, needs more damping - any sudden change in direction was instant snap oversteer. We dropped rear pressures to 29psi(!) to get some more compliance in the rear; that, plus the course rubbering up, plus some driving adjustments made it quite a delight to drive. We gained enough camber front/rear to eliminate any rollover issues. Front pressures we left at 44-46, slightly lower than my old setup, it didn't feel broken so we didn't try to fix it. I'll play with lower pressures at a local.

If you are going to do the springs you really should get real shocks. I have a long history of driving through some really hack car setups so don't take my result as a sign you can just slap the springs on and go.

[SeanRTR]

Originally Posted by renfield90

I had a tire deal fall through (no fault of the seller) and it happened right around the time the Bridgestone came out. Then Hollis and Dietz finally got released to start talking about the Rival S and I thought "I'm just gonna wait for the dust to settle...and in the mean time, if I can score a free tire or two, so much the better."

The car was awful in transitions Saturday AM, needs more damping - any sudden change in direction was instant snap oversteer. We dropped rear pressures to 29psi(!) to get some more compliance in the rear; that, plus the course rubbering up, plus some driving adjustments made it quite a delight to drive. We gained enough camber front/rear to eliminate any rollover issues. Front pressures we left at 44-46, slightly lower than my old setup, it didn't feel broken so we didn't try to fix it. I'll play with lower pressures at a local.


If you are going to do the springs you really should get real shocks. I have a long history of driving through some really hack car setups so don't take my result as a sign you can just slap the springs on and go.

46 PSI on Rivals? Holy shit.
Well nice job on the second place. Admittedly, I was hoping you got protested so we could finally make sense of this all.....but I guess the Saga continues.

[7thgear]

Originally Posted by SeanRTR

. Admittedly, I was hoping you got protested so we could finally make sense of this all.....but I guess the Saga continues.

so..........


how would this theoretically play out. Our scene is so mellow I can't remember anyone ever getting protested for something as technical as this.




So someone would have to make a claim during the impound time (or just during the day, I assume, at a "local" event).

You bust out the paperwork, and include a verbal defense.




then what? the steward makes the call? Is their call then a precedent for all future events? If the call is in favor of the springs, what does this mean for the rest of the year? Can that defense be transcribed and used at all future events?


Sorry for the noobshnes, protests are grey territory for me!

[renfield90]

Originally Posted by SeanRTR

46 PSI on Rivals? Holy shit.
Well nice job on the second place. Admittedly, I was hoping you got protested so we could finally make sense of this all.....but I guess the Saga continues.

Thanks! Part of that high pressure up front is driving style - I come from a FWD background so I need a really responsive front end. Part of that is to combat rollover. At nats I was running 49psi hot, but we know that compound doesn't like that surface. Never got the car working quite right.

[renfield90]

Originally Posted by coneracer30

I find it interesting that everyone discounts the OEM shocks. As if an unprepped car can't win. I can't honestly find much wrong with them. Certainly not enough that I'm leaping at the chance to spend the money to replace them. Even Lee at Koni thought that they were some of the best matched OEM dampers he had seen.

See my response to SeanRTR. I agree the OEM dampers are pretty damn good if you stay on stock springs. If you upgrade, you're going to have to fight transition issues because the suspension will be slightly underdamped - the right tool for the job at that point is a new set of shocks.

Whenever possible by the rules, you should set the car up fundamentally "right" rather than relying on other hacks to get you close to good. That's my personal goal this year.

[Shark_Bait88]

So I installed my OEM crash bolts this weekend and took the car in for an alignment.

While the tech was working on it he found something kind of interesting. The left front wheel was able to be adjusted up to -1.3 degrees of camber, but the right front would only reach -.8 degrees of camber (although it could be adjusted the other way to +1.3 degrees).

Both wheels got set at -.8 degrees to match each other, but I'm just curious why there was such a discrepancy in how much the two could be adjusted. Any ideas?

[renfield90]

Originally Posted by Shark_Bait88

So I installed my OEM crash bolts this weekend and took the car in for an alignment.

While the tech was working on it he found something kind of interesting. The left front wheel was able to be adjusted up to -1.3 degrees of camber, but the right front would only reach -.8 degrees of camber (although it could be adjusted the other way to +1.3 degrees).

Both wheels got set at -.8 degrees to match each other, but I'm just curious why there was such a discrepancy in how much the two could be adjusted. Any ideas?

Manufacturing tolerances and dumb luck.

If you wanna go HAM on front camber do this:
Loosen both strut bolts
Loosen the three nuts on the top hat of the strut
Place a jack under the brake rotor and jack it up a little
Take a 5lb mini sledge and smack the strut assembly inwards several times
Retighten the three nuts on top, then the two strut bolts, then remove the jack

Not responsible for anything you break

[Shark_Bait88]

Originally Posted by renfield90

Manufacturing tolerances and dumb luck.

If you wanna go HAM on front camber do this:
Loosen both strut bolts
Loosen the three nuts on the top hat of the strut
Place a jack under the brake rotor and jack it up a little
Take a 5lb mini sledge and smack the strut assembly inwards several times
Retighten the three nuts on top, then the two strut bolts, then remove the jack

Not responsible for anything you break

I think I'll just stick with my -.8 degrees. lol

[renfield90]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

so..........

how would this theoretically play out. Our scene is so mellow I can't remember anyone ever getting protested for something as technical as this.

So someone would have to make a claim during the impound time (or just during the day, I assume, at a "local" event).

You bust out the paperwork, and include a verbal defense.

then what? the steward makes the call? Is their call then a precedent for all future events? If the call is in favor of the springs, what does this mean for the rest of the year? Can that defense be transcribed and used at all future events?

Sorry for the noobshnes, protests are grey territory for me!

At a pro solo, protests must be delivered in writing to the impound worker, usually within 30 minutes of results being posted for that heat, and the protest fee paid ($100, plus the whatever cost may be needed to check the part in question - if you protest someone's pistons, prepare to pay for an engine teardown). At that point the chief of protest assembles a protest committee (PC) to hear the protester's claim of which rule was broken and the protestee's defense to why said rule wasn't broken. The PC then deliberates privately with each other before returning a verdict. If successful, protester gets their full fee and bond money back. If not, they're out of luck.

If found non-compliant, the PC has wide latitude in selecting a penalty - everything from "no penalty" (some dumb appearance mod) to "disqualified" is possible. The the losing side can appeal this decision ($200 fee) and have the national office take a look at it within a week.