Need Help getting power without Forced Induction

[SirBrass]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

Not sure if serious.

I love my Phantom ESC built by @Robftss and tuned by @Shiv@Openflash. It's great.

N.A. performance
Still the OP did say that he didn't want F.I. If he wants to stay N.A. This post is definitely the best route for him (+30 WHP for $1-$2k on e85). A side note, On a N.A. '86 a LWCP and intake are pretty well known to be a waste of money in the early game.

F.I. performance
I will say that for $2k there is not another mod for this car that comes close to my Phantom ESC running Shiv's e85 OpenFlash Tablet tune ($2200-$2300 total installed). Especially with the most recent partial throttle upgrades, the mid-range torque is phenomenal. 0-60 or even 0-80 most Stg.1 (producing 7-10 lbs of boost) traditional supercharger kits would either be on par or behind my car while costing a lot more to buy and install. This is mostly due to the way that traditional F.I. power (most importantly torque) output parasitically tied to engine speed or exhaust gas pressure. With an ESC's discreet 24v electric motor, max torque is available immediately. Same reason why Ferrari, McClaren, and Porsche are all using electric motors to "torque fill" their most expensive cars.

We're both in SoCal, so I'd be glad to give you a demo ride at one of the meets. If you're interested PM me.

Some numbers... This car @Sojhinn is very similarly prepped to mine (both Vishnu tuned on e85 both minus one cat with an aftermarket catback exhaust and drop-in filter). 223 WHP (@6600 RPM) / 201WTQ (@ 3250 RPM!!) from an older version of the kit.

Where do you get E85 in SoCal? I'm about an hour and a half from OC (almost in Riverside County) and haven't seen hide nor hair of any E85 pumps. Best I can get for the price is MCX's 91 on base (Camp Pendleton).

Originally Posted by jflogerzi

Do not get an intake. Stock is just fine. If you after pure power Here are the 3 mods I recommend:

OFT, OFH and an axleback. Trust me, nothing else is needed for gaining power with NA. Front pipe and OP not required.

Bingo, though OFT and OFH aren't your only options. But axleback is purely cosmetic (in both looks and sound).

I have ecuteck, jdl uel, nameless fp/op w/ hemholz, and invidia q300, and a washable drop-in filter (for convenience, not performance). I LOVE the performance gains the headers got me. I got the catback (would've gone axleback if the q300 had an AB version) purely for looks and sound. All the performance gains came when I got tuned with the headers and fp/op (though I'd been running with a tune beforehand, the headers and fp/op gave my tuner more room to work with).

I'd go e85 if there were any nearby. But the range decrease is just not worth it for me.

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by SirBrass

Where do you get E85 in SoCal? I'm about an hour and a half from OC (almost in Riverside County) and haven't seen hide nor hair of any E85 pumps. Best I can get for the price is MCX's 91 on base (Camp Pendleton)...

...I'd go e85 if there were any nearby. But the range decrease is just not worth it for me.

I get e85 from the Propel pumps in either Anaheim (1 station) or Huntington Beach (2 stations).

If you're in/near Pendleton, there are Propel e85 pumps in Oceanside and Vista.

G&M Gas Station (near the Beach)
1660 Oceanside Blvd
Oceanside, 92054 CA

Arco Station (near Vista)
1501 North Melrose Drive
Oceanside, CA 92056

You'll definitely get decreased range. The power increase is too addicting for me to not run it so I just deal with getting between 150-200 miles per tank full. You can find more propel e85 pumps at this link http://propelfuels.com/locations/

There are other companies selling e85 but the info is harder to come by. There's the US Dept of Energy's Alt Fuel Data Center Ethanol Locations map found here:
http://www.afdc.energy.gov/fuels/ethanol_locations.html

And finally there is this website that can be a little out of date, so I'd recommend calling ahead to confirm if the station still has their e85 pump.
http://www.e85locator.net/State%20Pa...locations.html

[MikeM7]

I have an E85 station 1 or 2 miles from my house, I literally have to drive by it every day to go anywhere. Just not sure it's worth running E85 on a daily driver. Then again, I am in the process of header/catback/tune on my daily driver so I guess should be over that already lol.

Is there any drawback to E85 other than severely decreased gas mileage and gas station limitations?

As for the all the intake talk.. it seems pretty unanimous across the forum that an aftermarket intake on this car is a waste of money. I just got a KN drop in filter and Perrin intake tube and left the box alone. That was the logical conclusion that I drew from the last couple months of reading, anyway. I'm no expert myself.

[Kostamojen]

Originally Posted by donoman

What about California guys, are there any SMOG legal headers? I don't want to pull the headers off every 2 years to pass a SMOG.

No there are not any and there will not be any due to CARB rules, but you can easily swap the header in under an hour.

[Koa]

Originally Posted by MikeM7

I have an E85 station 1 or 2 miles from my house, I literally have to drive by it every day to go anywhere. Just not sure it's worth running E85 on a daily driver. Then again, I am in the process of header/catback/tune on my daily driver so I guess should be over that already lol.

Is there any drawback to E85 other than severely decreased gas mileage and gas station limitations?

It's not a severe decrease in gas mileage, but significant. Exponentially decreases with WOT % but we all know that more fuel = more fun = hurts our checkbooks

If you're DDing your 86, check out how to get back at least half of the MPG decreases by tweaking the OFT E85 stage 2 tune (props to Camaro and Steve):

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83945

[steve99]

Originally Posted by donoman

What about California guys, are there any SMOG legal headers? I don't want to pull the headers off every 2 years to pass a SMOG.

You can run E85 with stock header with good results

[SirBrass]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

I get e85 from the Propel pumps in either Anaheim (1 station) or Huntington Beach (2 stations).

If you're in/near Pendleton, there are Propel e85 pumps in Oceanside and Vista.

G&M Gas Station (near the Beach)
1660 Oceanside Blvd
Oceanside, 92054 CA

Arco Station (near Vista)
1501 North Melrose Drive
Oceanside, CA 92056

You'll definitely get decreased range. The power increase is too addicting for me to not run it so I just deal with getting between 150-200 miles per tank full. You can find more propel e85 pumps at this link http://propelfuels.com/locations/

There are other companies selling e85 but the info is harder to come by. There's the US Dept of Energy's Alt Fuel Data Center Ethanol Locations map found here:
http://www.afdc.energy.gov/fuels/ethanol_locations.html

And finally there is this website that can be a little out of date, so I'd recommend calling ahead to confirm if the station still has their e85 pump.
http://www.e85locator.net/State%20Pa...locations.html

Unfortunately, Oceanside and Vista (it's about an hour's drive to Vista from where we live, even taking the 15 and 78, and taking the 76 to Oceanside is about a 40 minute affair if traffic isn't horrible) are too far. We live near the northeast end of Pendleton (closest access is the Naval Weapons Station in Fallbrook).

And, I think I'm good on power. I have to drive about 7 miles through curvy mountain roads to get to town. Not enough straights there to really take advantage of more power. Engine-back exhaust, tune, and 225/45/17 Michellin PSS's are enough for me in tackling the curves.... Next step is the brakes and then maybe looking at swift springs.

Googlemap or Google Earth de luz road in Fallbrook... Yeah, that's a daily (or semi-weekly) drive for me. Wheeeeee!

[MikeM7]

Originally Posted by MikeM7

OP, short answer appears to be

-Openflash Tablet
-Openflash Header

and, if you don't mind filling up constantly at special gas stations (which I do)
-E85 Tune

This is my take away after the last week of searching/reading/asking. Should provide substantial power gains for least money (~$1200). After that, maybe start working on exhaust, although it looks like for each component, you're only looking at a couple whp gain, so your hp per dollar falls substantially after the OFT/OFH combo.

Experts, correct me if I'm wrong.

As of now, I'm planning to sell BPB, buy OFH, re-tune, and call it a day.

Someone thanked this post and brought my attention to it, so sorry for bumping an old thread, but I just realized how wrong I was about E85 lol.

I ended up with the following performance mods

OFH
Perrin 2.5 resonated
OFT Stage 2 UEL E85 tune
K&N Drop in
Perrin intake tube/sound tube delete

My price: $1995

Blown away, huge difference. I didn't notice a big jump between stage 1 and stage 2 UEL, however when i added E85 tune it felt like night and day. My car drives and sounds like it looks now. I haven't really noticed the decrease in gas mileage too much, but I don't drive a lot of miles anyway.

I also did raceseng slammer weighted shift knob, diy clutch grab, motul300 gearbox oil, and have the clutch slave cylinder but haven't installed yet.

This was less than 200 dollars, and would be even lower if I hadn't gotten a 150 dollar shift knob.

If you want more power and better driveability without FI, this is without a doubt a solid choice. I am completely satisfied.