Need Help getting power without Forced Induction

[ShadowSeraph]

So much discussion on here. For the OP. All I know is after doing the following

Drop in Air filter
Header
Full 3' exhaust
Carbon fiber drive shaft (weight reduction ftw)
Lightweight crank pulley (don't care what anyone says.. still about 4lb reduction and it all adds up over mods)
OFT tune


I put my car in drive on flat ground and it will pull itself to 12mph or so(auto). I have to put it in N just to slow enough to go over the speed bumps in the parking lot(so I don't need to ride the brakes) and I can make my 9.5 wide tires break traction in 3rd gear.

I still have some N/A power to be had if FBM releases their intake manifold and I would go a full CAI and mod the snorkel a bit.

The car has considerably more pep, sound and all things good. It is finally how it should have been out of the factory. Good luck and halve fun with your mods. Now If I could find a Dyno around southern WI

[KoolBRZ]

Originally Posted by MikeM7

1. No, no FI. Too expensive, wife would kill me. I can get away with a couple thousand in bolt on's, spread out over a few months. She won't really notice that. Plus, it's a daily driver, not a track car. I just want to make some improvements for personal enjoyment and to improve my ability to jump in the fast lane without cutting someone off. People around here like to merge onto 65mp highways at 45mph...

2. I would never buy this car in automatic.. if I wanted automatic I'd just get a nice sedan.

3. I regretfully don't really know what you're talking about.. too technical for me. I will have to read up. I'm guessing you're talking about tuning to get best airflow performance. I was under the assumption that the OFT guys did all the hard technical work for me, and I just needed to flash their pre-programmed tune based on the mods I have. Since all I have performance-wise is a drop in, I just went with the stage 1 tune it came with. I assume if I add anything else, like BPB, I'll just need to download the appropriate tune from OFT, and flash it.

1. I'd recommend getting a header,(OFH with gaskets) and using a stage 2 tune. For added perfomance, (track day) fill with E85 and use the OFT E85 tune.

2. Sell the BPB and get an intake.

3. The absolutely best bang for the buck in FI is the Electric SC. At under $2000 nothing even comes close. You might be on the list for 6 months to a year before you see it though.

4. And, last, but not least, keep your stock parts to put back on when you sell it, or have to run it through DEQ. I have DEQ where I'm at, and plan to reinstall the stock header/intake/tune in order to pass. At least it's only once every two years. Every year would be a pain.

[cjd]

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

When removing rotational mass from the drive train I am suggesting there is less inertia to overcome.

I'm am being a pedant here but if one is measuring power on an inertia dyno and one remove a significant amount of drive train inertia I am suggesting the reading, that is the power displayed, will increase. That is, there has been an increase in acceleration therefore an increase in power.
This is the way I interpret the system.

The difference in drivetrain mass is theoretically most effective in lower gears, where the mechanical advantage amplifies any change in the same way a dyno does (vs your car on the street.) WHP is a fuzzy enough number as it is. By the time the car is moving much, other forces start to play a bigger role. Rolling resistance, surface quality, and at some point aero... on a bad enough surface, it could even be possible lower rotating mass could hurt, though that's probably stretching a bit.

I grind coffee by hand, and have a pretty big flywheel on the grinder (HG-one) - the uneven resistance of the beans and the burr is smoothed over noticeably as a result. Assuming you had a road just as bad...

Anyway, the way to eliminate this whole HP mess from the discussion is to instead focus the OP on the intended results of said HP increase.

I've never met a car that didn't, at some point, start to feel stretched out, leaving me wishing for just a little more power. With this car, the answer is obvious - add a corner there! Ahh, fun again. Staying boost-free, I think more results can be had through focus on getting that grip to the ground: tires and suspension setup. Yeah, you won't wind out quite as fast on a long straight, but just about everywhere else you'll be faster. Assuming you're not at a dragstrip...

That's not to say a header and tune aren't a good investment, especially if e85 is an option.

C

[Amaya]

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

When removing rotational mass from the drive train I am suggesting there is less inertia to overcome.

I'm am being a pedant here but if one is measuring power on an inertia dyno and one remove a significant amount of drive train inertia I am suggesting the reading, that is the power displayed, will increase. That is, there has been an increase in acceleration therefore an increase in power.
This is the way I interpret the system.

Your interpretation is wrong but it's an accurate enough fallacy for most people. :p
Hmm, I think I've become a physics Nazi.

[Kostamojen]

Originally Posted by Shiv@Openflash

Back in the late 90s we released a lightweight underdrive pulley for the EJ25 in the Impreza 2.5RS. I was lucky enough to have a customer who works in the NVH department at Rousch. He tested the engine for harmonics with the stock pulley and our pulley (no harmonic damper) only to find that the stock pulley moved the major harmonics above 7500rpm where it would otherwise be at 7000rpm. It wasn't a big deal for us since we rev limited that engine to 6900rpm.

I still had mine when I sold my GC in 2013 to buy my BRZ

[jflogerzi]

Do not get an intake. Stock is just fine. If you after pure power Here are the 3 mods I recommend:

OFT, OFH and an axleback. Trust me, nothing else is needed for gaining power with NA. Front pipe and OP not required.

[KoolBRZ]

Originally Posted by jflogerzi

Do not get an intake. Stock is just fine. If you after pure power Here are the 3 mods I recommend:

OFT, OFH and an axleback. Trust me, nothing else is needed for gaining power with NA. Front pipe and OP not required.

Been there, done that. Has less power than with a free-flowing intake, but worse than that, freeing up the exhaust costs gas mileage, but freeing up the intake gives more power AND better mileage. Then get better tires, because by then yours will be too worn.

[jflogerzi]

Originally Posted by KoolBRZ

Been there, done that. Has less power than with a free-flowing intake, but worse than that, freeing up the exhaust costs gas mileage, but freeing up the intake gives more power AND better mileage. Then get better tires, because by then yours will be too worn.

Your post makes zero sense. Intakes are a waste of money. Header tune and get an axleback as the stock exhaust with catless headers can sound bad at times. If you want to track throw in an oil cooler brake pads fluid and tires.

[Andrew025]

Originally Posted by KoolBRZ

Been there, done that. Has less power than with a free-flowing intake, but worse than that, freeing up the exhaust costs gas mileage, but freeing up the intake gives more power AND better mileage. Then get better tires, because by then yours will be too worn.

Why in your other post did you say to get a header then?

[s2d4]

Originally Posted by KoolBRZ

Been there, done that. Has less power than with a free-flowing intake, but worse than that, freeing up the exhaust costs gas mileage

You are bat shit crazy.

[Calum]

Originally Posted by s2d4

You are bat shit crazy.

But entertaining.

[Malt]

Originally Posted by jflogerzi

Do not get an intake. Stock is just fine. If you after pure power Here are the 3 mods I recommend:

OFT, OFH and an axleback. Trust me, nothing else is needed for gaining power with NA. Front pipe and OP not required.

Axlebacks/Catbacks make little to no power at all. OFH and OFT however I agree with as thats probably the best bang for the buck upgrade on the market currently.

[KoolBRZ]

Originally Posted by s2d4

You are bat shit crazy.

What I meant was adding an intake WITH a header, and an OFT. A header alone gives power but cuts mileage, since the valve overlap hasn't been changed and there is less back-pressure. Since the exhaust flow is slower through the larger primaries, there is also less low-end torque. Lowering the air resistance through the intake and filter however, increase the low-end torque, helping to offset the loss of torque from the header. The OFT supplies the tune to best use the header, and in some cases, even the best MAF scale for the new intake.

It's very simple. There are no OTS tunes to reduce valve overlap to get better mileage. When the exhaust is replaced with more free-flowing exhaust it allows more power, but it also allows more unburnt fuel to flow out, because of the valve overlap. So, more power, less mileage with a free-flowing exhaust.

A free-flowing intake however, when added with a header, will only give more power, since valve overlap and back-pressure only affect the exhaust. So, if you want more power with good mileage, get an OFT, an intake and a header.

I feel the best compromise is with an OFT, an intake and a header. I personally have an axle-back also, simply for the better looks and sound. It doesn't give me a bit more power, and costs me a little mileage, since there is less back-pressure, but it sounds good when I open it up.

[phobos512]

Originally Posted by KoolBRZ

...and there is less back-pressure...since valve overlap and back-pressure...