Still can't decide on AT or MT for your first FRS/BRZ? This may help...

[Moto-P]

Originally Posted by Cornerman

Don't forget, the MT is supposed to be about a half second faster 0 to 60. That has to be an advantage for auto-x.
That being said, I still ordered the Semi-automatic!

That didn't prove to be the case in 6 of 10 autocross drivers at the Press Event. They are seasoned drivers but may/may not be exclusive to autocrossing, but I am for one a SCCA Solo2 Nationals driver who won as a team in 2002 driving an AE86. And I posted just about the same time in the autocross event on a separate occasion where I had both units on hand to try.

In autocross, it isn't about which transmission in the case of the FRS, but if the course layout favors one gear range over another, and in some cases, the spread gears allow for less shifting, and securing that contact patch with less errors. So it can work both ways. Theoretical advantage is always distorted from ideal when the driver has to operate machines, and as such in the FRS, the AT did do a great job of keeping the driver focused and holding each gear when needed, switching predictably and consistently. As for the MT, the times become less consistent as slightest mistake in clutch slipping operation can lurch a fraction of a second as it can send the rear tire in light driveline shock, and creating delays on TORSEN diff to lock up precisely at the moment we needed it. The AT can keep a fairly consistent load on the LSD easier.

Which is more fun though? Of Course the MT, as it is much more of a challenge, and making it more driver induced and, making it the BEST for FRS, while the AT, I might call it the MOST, because of its universal consistency. IF you can drive just as talented as Tetsuya Yamano, or Orido Manabu, both Japan's kings of ghymkhana, then yes MT will be quicker in the autocross.

[TRD_07]

A few years ago i owned a Eclipse 5MT and i thought it was the funnest thing ever and then sold it because I was offered a fair amount for it. Next, I decided to purchase an auto Corolla S and regreted it regardless of the mpg's advantage . I've driven SL 500's, SL 55, Audi A8 v10, Audi R8 with auto trannies and they drive amazing compared to my Corolla S and which dont even compare but I'm caught in the middle of missing the eclipse MT feel of shifting and how well built the modern AT's are in sports cars. On another note this car is going to be my DD.

[Jordo!]

Originally Posted by Moto-P

That didn't prove to be the case in 6 of 10 autocross drivers at the Press Event. They are seasoned drivers but may/may not be exclusive to autocrossing, but I am for one a SCCA Solo2 Nationals driver who won as a team in 2002 driving an AE86. And I posted just about the same time in the autocross event on a separate occasion where I had both units on hand to try.

In autocross, it isn't about which transmission in the case of the FRS, but if the course layout favors one gear range over another, and in some cases, the spread gears allow for less shifting, and securing that contact patch with less errors. So it can work both ways. Theoretical advantage is always distorted from ideal when the driver has to operate machines, and as such in the FRS, the AT did do a great job of keeping the driver focused and holding each gear when needed, switching predictably and consistently. As for the MT, the times become less consistent as slightest mistake in clutch slipping operation can lurch a fraction of a second as it can send the rear tire in light driveline shock, and creating delays on TORSEN diff to lock up precisely at the moment we needed it. The AT can keep a fairly consistent load on the LSD easier.

Which is more fun though? Of Course the MT, as it is much more of a challenge, and making it more driver induced and, making it the BEST for FRS, while the AT, I might call it the MOST, because of its universal consistency. IF you can drive just as talented as Tetsuya Yamano, or Orido Manabu, both Japan's kings of ghymkhana, then yes MT will be quicker in the autocross.

Question: Can the AT be set to hold gears as you approach idle on coast down, or will it automatically downshift? If so, does it drop one gear at a time or go right to first once you stop rolling?

I'm hoping that's the case, because the one thing the AT 370Z does in manual mode that annoys me is that it will drop down a gear if you drop to about 1K RPM rather than just holding the last gear until given an input from the driver.

[Jordo!]

Originally Posted by reni

So you're trying to say you fit into the latter category?

No, I'm saying you are a spectacular douche bag for posting that the only reason to drive the AT is because of a physical of mental disability.

That you don't understand why saying things like that will make you reviled by many suggests you might be the one who's a bit slow.

Or maybe you don't care, in which case, see further previous point.

[Sport-Tech]

Originally Posted by Jordo!

Question: Can the AT be set to hold gears as you approach idle on coast down, or will it automatically downshift? If so, does it drop one gear at a time or go right to first once you stop rolling?

I'm hoping that's the case, because the one thing the AT 370Z does in manual mode that annoys me is that it will drop down a gear if you drop to about 1K RPM rather than just holding the last gear until given an input from the driver.

I posted the exact same question in the powertrain subforum earlier today, haven't had an answer yet. I'd prefer it if the auto does what the 370Z does, both to prevent accidental lugging and stalling, and to make daily driving much less onerous when going from stoplight to stoplight using the paddles - who wants to have to blip down through 4-3-2-1 every time you stop? This might be fun for a few days but it would quickly become tiring for most. Even a manual would be less work - brake, clutch in, shift to first.

[reni]

Originally Posted by Jordo!

No, I'm saying you are a spectacular douche bag for posting that the only reason to drive the AT is because of a physical of mental disability.

That you don't understand why saying things like that will make you reviled by many suggests you might be the one who's a bit slow.

Or maybe you don't care, in which case, see further previous point.

lol u mad

[Guff]

No trolling and no name calling.


Or I'll have both of you guys in the brig.

[Buggy51]

@Moto-P, how is the gas mileage by the way? I can understand the concept that the AT should get better mpg, but how are your readings?

[Sport-Tech]

Damn! Looks like I'll have to learn heel and toe after all based on the latest Japanese results lol...how many 100s of hours does it take?

[Moto-P]

Originally Posted by Jordo!

Question: Can the AT be set to hold gears as you approach idle on coast down, or will it automatically downshift? If so, does it drop one gear at a time or go right to first once you stop rolling?

I'm hoping that's the case, because the one thing the AT 370Z does in manual mode that annoys me is that it will drop down a gear if you drop to about 1K RPM rather than just holding the last gear until given an input from the driver.

In full manual mode, it is as it implies, it will not intervene and all the mistakes you would make in a manual is available to you, like being in too high or low of a gear. This is one of the things I love about it, is that in this mode, the AT behaves what it is told to do and nothing else. The only feature is the prevention of going past redline on the downshifts where the next lower gear will send the engine into beyond the redline, and if you come to a complete stop, it will reset you into 1st. That's it.

Now in SPORT AUTO (assisted) mode, the gears will downshift in extended hard braking, assuming that that you are diving into an apex and assuming you will need to be in powerband at the next throttle input. This is however conservative and won't happen at an alarming mistiming, which is good because you can always flip the paddle to drop a gear if needed. The paddle is available to you in any mode...even the full normal "Camry mode".

[Moto-P]

Originally Posted by Nardi330

How difficult would that be? Is it just a software thing or u need to swap the switch like some older Mitsubishi? How would the gear selection trim look after swapping (ie show +/- correctly).

Thx

It's an electronic signal only for +/- so it should be as finding the appropriate pins in the switch underneath and swapping the wires backwards...though I'd have to devise the upper plate so the labels won't be off to complete the look...

[Moto-P]

Originally Posted by Jordo!

Very well thought out post.

Do you or does anyone yet know if the AT does actually have greater drivetrain losses? If it has full lock up from 2-6, it should lose no more power through the drivetrain than the MT once out of first. The difference in speed may be 100% due to gearing.

Moreover, it's quite possible that the shift speed can be adjusted electronically so that it will shift even faster, meaning that with a tune, the difference between MT and AT may shrink to virtually nothing (and if they had added a 7th gear, it might very well have been faster than the MT...).

Well this is my point, if speed is the ONLY element in your choice and you have the skills to shift perfectly up and down as a seasoned competition driver, then MT is an obvious choice, and I wasn't arguing about this.

I was only offering an explanation to how much nicer the AT had gotten in this particular car and for people who are into advancement in AT tech or have multiple roles where theoretical speed on the track is not the only deciding factor, the AT does present a very interesting and entertaining alternative.

No need to defend the MT, I am also in the camp that thinks the MT is one of the best in the industry for the FRS and for truly dedicated enthusiasts who swear by them to by all means, buy the MT. No regrets there either.

For the question in this post, yes the AT does shift rapidly enough to be pretty entertaining and extremely useful on the racetrack. I've driven both at Spring Mountain Raceway. No complaints and this is where I made up my mind, really... Believe it or not.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Moto-P

In full manual mode, it is as it implies, it will not intervene and all the mistakes you would make in a manual is available to you, like being in too high or low of a gear. This is one of the things I love about it, is that in this mode, the AT behaves what it is told to do and nothing else. The only feature is the prevention of going past redline on the downshifts where the next lower gear will send the engine into beyond the redline, and if you come to a complete stop, it will reset you into 1st. That's it.

Now in SPORT AUTO (assisted) mode, the gears will downshift in extended hard braking, assuming that that you are diving into an apex and assuming you will need to be in powerband at the next throttle input. This is however conservative and won't happen at an alarming mistiming, which is good because you can always flip the paddle to drop a gear if needed. The paddle is available to you in any mode...even the full normal "Camry mode".

I'm assuming by full manual mode you mean everything turned off (hold down for 3 seconds, etc), correct? I haven't tried it yet. Will it then, (not that you would want to) basically let you stall the car out but driving too slow in, say 6th gear? I did notice in Sport mode it would not let you shift up (say from 3rd to 4th) if you are going too slow.

[Moto-P]

Originally Posted by Scion FR-S

I posted the exact same question in the powertrain subforum earlier today, haven't had an answer yet. I'd prefer it if the auto does what the 370Z does, both to prevent accidental lugging and stalling, and to make daily driving much less onerous when going from stoplight to stoplight using the paddles - who wants to have to blip down through 4-3-2-1 every time you stop? This might be fun for a few days but it would quickly become tiring for most. Even a manual would be less work - brake, clutch in, shift to first.

That's why there are 4 different shift modes, from fully manual (unassisted) to snow, sport, and normal "Camry" modes. So if you don't want to shift, it can shift on its own between lights and traffic.