which header to go with and why? - Page 4 - Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community

raven1231 · 03-26-2015, 09:19 PM

my engine blew up

not because of my tune or the turbo.....but because I went UEL.

Mr_YUzU_FRS · 03-26-2015, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raven1231

my engine blew up

not because of my tune or the turbo.....but because I went UEL.

Really? What happened exactly? Not because of tune?

burdickjp · 03-26-2015, 10:02 PM

Every single cylinder on the engine has different breathing, fueling, and temperature characteristics. On some engines the lengths of runners is intentionally different to spread the power around in the rev range rather than stack it all in one place. The difficulty is that the larger the difference is, the less ideal the average is to either extreme. A well tuned equal length system will outperform a well tuned unequal length system when one can only tune based on averaged data, such as torque production and a single O2 sensor.
To really maximize an unequal length system you need to be looking at O2 and EGT from all four cylinders and torque production. That's the only way you can really know what's going on. That's the ideal.
If you don't have that, then similar effort can better maximize the performance of an equal length system.
Back to that bold sentence at the top; this all depends on how unequal the unequal system is. To be able to say what is too unequal for averaged tuning would require data.

Kostamojen · 03-26-2015, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr_YUzU_FRS

Really? What happened exactly? Not because of tune?

Turn on your sarcasm detector

steve99 · 03-26-2015, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr_YUzU_FRS

Really? What happened exactly? Not because of tune?

don't worry he is just being sarcastic his engine did not blow

dratom · 03-26-2015, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bur****jp

This person deserves a cookie.
I'll be doing 4 EGT and 4 O2 as soon as funds allow.

I really look forward to seeing the results from this.

Depending on the symmetries of the UEL - could you get away with 2 of each?

EAGLE5 · 03-27-2015, 01:00 AM

His uel took an arrow to the knee.

Mr_YUzU_FRS · 03-27-2015, 02:53 AM

I'm already aware that el header will make more powe on this car. I like the rumble from the Uel headers. Hopefully it doesn't hurt the engine too much. Haven't heard of anyone having engine problems with uel header on their FRS brz.

burdickjp · 03-27-2015, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dratom

I really look forward to seeing the results from this.

Depending on the symmetries of the UEL - could you get away with 2 of each?

Bingo. You could opt for pairs, if you had reason to, such as ECUs which can only run semi-sequential injection. I figure in for a penny in for a pound, might as well do all 4.

Koa · 03-27-2015, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raven1231

my engine blew up

not because of my tune or the turbo.....but because I went UEL.

LOOOOOL

I love these UEL naysayers

fantah · 03-27-2015, 08:41 PM

EL for top end power and UEL for more torque, plus it takes away that dead spot

CTB727 · 03-27-2015, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raven1231

In his defense this is a relatively cheap car...and the gains on an NA car are marginal any way. The two or three hp difference between brands isn't a game changer by any means.

It's about the power gains, it's about the quality of the part itself. And about the peace of mind knowing that (usually) nothing will go wrong with a high quality header.

FirestormFRS · 03-27-2015, 09:23 PM

Your price range will define what you get.

You can spend $1300 on a pTuning header and if you get a loud obnoxious 3" exhaust with a tune you can make 200 on 93 gas.

You can spend 400-500 on a quality used header and add a reasonable exhaust+tune and make 190ish...

I'd love to have the pTuning header. They apparently love it more than me though because imho it's overpriced.

xlid007 · 04-07-2015, 12:06 PM

No need to pay over 1k for a header. That's ridiculous. Just get Tomei header and overpipe for $700+ and call it a day. Perfect fitment, overall great gains, awesome exhaust sound (I went UEL since I'm a huge fan of the Rumble). I got mine from FRSport during one of their sales and payed 780 shipped for the combo.

03-26-2015, 09:19 PM	#43
raven1231 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Drives: 2013 Firestorm FR-S, 2016 DGM WRX Location: Cincinnati, Ohio Posts: 4,580 Thanks: 8,264 Thanked 3,118 Times in 1,667 Posts Mentioned: 24 Post(s)	my engine blew up not because of my tune or the turbo.....but because I went UEL. __________________ http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59870

03-27-2015, 02:53 AM	#50
Mr_YUzU_FRS Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2014 Drives: 2015 Scion FRS RS 1.0 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 118 Thanks: 2 Thanked 45 Times in 22 Posts Mentioned: 2 Post(s)	I'm already aware that el header will make more powe on this car. I like the rumble from the Uel headers. Hopefully it doesn't hurt the engine too much. Haven't heard of anyone having engine problems with uel header on their FRS brz. Last edited by Mr_YUzU_FRS; 03-27-2015 at 09:25 AM.

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03-26-2015, 10:02 PM	#45
burdickjp Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Drives: 2013 ultramarine Scion FR-S Location: Royal Oak, MI Posts: 293 Thanks: 140 Thanked 137 Times in 70 Posts Mentioned: 0 Post(s)	Every single cylinder on the engine has different breathing, fueling, and temperature characteristics. On some engines the lengths of runners is intentionally different to spread the power around in the rev range rather than stack it all in one place. The difficulty is that the larger the difference is, the less ideal the average is to either extreme. A well tuned equal length system will outperform a well tuned unequal length system when one can only tune based on averaged data, such as torque production and a single O2 sensor. To really maximize an unequal length system you need to be looking at O2 and EGT from all four cylinders and torque production. That's the only way you can really know what's going on. That's the ideal. If you don't have that, then similar effort can better maximize the performance of an equal length system. Back to that bold sentence at the top; this all depends on how unequal the unequal system is. To be able to say what is too unequal for averaged tuning would require data.

03-27-2015, 09:23 PM	#55
FirestormFRS Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Drives: 2013 FR-S Location: Anytown Posts: 920 Thanks: 73 Thanked 643 Times in 302 Posts Mentioned: 3 Post(s)	Your price range will define what you get. You can spend $1300 on a pTuning header and if you get a loud obnoxious 3" exhaust with a tune you can make 200 on 93 gas. You can spend 400-500 on a quality used header and add a reasonable exhaust+tune and make 190ish... I'd love to have the pTuning header. They apparently love it more than me though because imho it's overpriced.

04-07-2015, 12:06 PM	#56
xlid007 Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Drives: Scion FRS Location: Miami, FL Posts: 88 Thanks: 0 Thanked 19 Times in 11 Posts Mentioned: 2 Post(s)	No need to pay over 1k for a header. That's ridiculous. Just get Tomei header and overpipe for $700+ and call it a day. Perfect fitment, overall great gains, awesome exhaust sound (I went UEL since I'm a huge fan of the Rumble). I got mine from FRSport during one of their sales and payed 780 shipped for the combo.

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