(2015) 200+ Treadwear Autocross Street Tire Thread

[qoncept]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

I'm not saying you or I do this


I'm saying Toyo buying two Bridgestone tires and using their own testing equipment to prove that the ratings are bullshit, present this to the SCCA, in hopes of having the Bridgestone tires banned.

Good for them, they've just eliminated a competitor.

I would do this if I was in Toyo's shoes... unless their own tires would fail the same test put on by Bridgestone, which means are multi-corporate conspiracy and our wallets are the ultimate victims.

Meh. TW ratings are complete and utter horse shit. The [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treadwear_rating"]Treadwear rating - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame] is defined and tested by tying [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knot_%28unit%29"]Knot (unit) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame], but I really think it would be better measured in [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hand_%28unit%29"]Hand (unit) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame].

The manufacturers aren't keeping each other honest. There is exactly one kind of person (us) that cares about TW ratings, one rating (140) those people care about, and absolutely no one holding them accountable. Mold what you want.

[Traum]

Originally Posted by renfield90

Near race tire grip on a street tire, phenomenal wet grip, should get 100 competitive runs at least, and we're victims? No. Shut up and take my money.

The big question I see is, none of us know that the tire in question (RE-71R) is going to give us 100 competitive runs. It is all just pure speculation and the pitfalls of our human linear extrapolation.

I still vividly remember how expectation was high when the BFG Rivals first came out. Grip was both phenomenal and had a fat sweet spot (instead of being peaky). Wear seems very good, and a certain autox legend practically declared them a tire "that will float all boats higher". But once people started using it, they came to find that when the initial grip was used up after a bunch of runs, grip levels fell off the cliff in a manner that nobody had expected. Suddenly, the tire wasn't so much sought after anymore.

What I'm saying here is, we need more time, events, and runs to see how the tire is going to hold up. What I am reading here and in several other forums are, people are seeing some very promising initial performance from the tire, along with some mixed results on tire wear. And then we jump to the conclusion that the tire is going to give us enough competitive runs as it wears out. But we simply don't know if that is really the case! Maybe we'll only get 50 hot runs and then the tire falls flat on its face again. Or maybe the tire and grip levels will gradually fall off as the tire wears. Or maybe it'll hold on until the tire cords.

[qoncept]

Originally Posted by renfield90

Near race tire grip on a street tire, phenomenal wet grip, should get 100 competitive runs at least, and we're victims? No. Shut up and take my money.

The evidence seems to indicate that this is, in fact, a race tire stamped with a bullshit number. Pirelli's been there and it didn't work out for them, but it was a bit more brazen.

[AyJay]

Bought a set of RS-3 v2 for their cost effectiveness for price/wear and still respectable win totals. Gonna try to get em mounted before our local season opener this weekend.

[RedBRZ80]

I'm not sure the wear rate on a properly cambered STX car will be that bad, plus the tire can move to the other side once it wears a little. I've got about 25 runs on my RE71Rs and they look decent. I'll take stupid fast for extra wear.

[SeanRTR]

Originally Posted by RedBRZ80

. I'll take stupid fast for extra wear.

But to what extent?


Because if everyone buys the same fast wearing tires...you really have no advantage. We got away from Hooiser A6's because of this.... More grip doesn't equate to any more 'fun' for me, so I'd rather we all be on tires that wear like Iron, and don't cost four digits for a set....maybe I'm crazy though.

[MTCRX]

Originally Posted by SeanRTR

But to what extent?


Because if everyone buys the same fast wearing tires...you really have no advantage. We got away from Hooiser A6's because of this.... More grip doesn't equate to any more 'fun' for me, so I'd rather we all be on tires that wear like Iron, and don't cost four digits for a set....maybe I'm crazy though.

Or at least all be on tires with "real" comparable characteristics such as similar grip and wear properties. I can support different compounds and different tread and carcass designs, but when something such as wear characteristics are so different, full season wear vs 1/3 season, that is a little hard to take. Of course that is what goes on in Modifieds, without Hoosier you are SOL.

FWIW- It looks like Hankooks still won out over Bridgestones at El Toro. Does anyone have the final wins tally for all tires at the event? And I see the winner in STX was on Multi tires- Anyone know which tire sets and which were fastest?

[qoncept]

Originally Posted by MTCRX

Or at least all be on tires with "real" comparable characteristics such as similar grip and wear properties. I can support different compounds and different tread and carcass designs, but when something such as wear characteristics are so different, full season wear vs 1/3 season, that is a little hard to take. Of course that is what goes on in Modifieds, without Hoosier you are SOL.

Right. And in Street, we're dealing with a class that just had a monumental rule change (biggest ever?) ultimately intended to reduce tire cost and wear. I'm pretty sure the RE71R won't be excluded, but Bridgestone appears to have made it specifically for SCCA street class and sure as hell didn't design it in the same spirit as the rule.

[sjd]

Originally Posted by Traum

The big question I see is, none of us know that the tire in question (RE-71R) is going to give us 100 competitive runs. It is all just pure speculation and the pitfalls of our human linear extrapolation.

I still vividly remember how expectation was high when the BFG Rivals first came out. Grip was both phenomenal and had a fat sweet spot (instead of being peaky). Wear seems very good, and a certain autox legend practically declared them a tire "that will float all boats higher". But once people started using it, they came to find that when the initial grip was used up after a bunch of runs, grip levels fell off the cliff in a manner that nobody had expected. Suddenly, the tire wasn't so much sought after anymore.

What I'm saying here is, we need more time, events, and runs to see how the tire is going to hold up. What I am reading here and in several other forums are, people are seeing some very promising initial performance from the tire, along with some mixed results on tire wear. And then we jump to the conclusion that the tire is going to give us enough competitive runs as it wears out. But we simply don't know if that is really the case! Maybe we'll only get 50 hot runs and then the tire falls flat on its face again. Or maybe the tire and grip levels will gradually fall off as the tire wears. Or maybe it'll hold on until the tire cords.

This is 100% true. The problem is that people are looking for easy answers.

All you can really do is pick a tire that you think will work on your car and with your driving style and see how it goes. If you have the budget then try a couple of different tires on your car with your driving style. I've been lucky enough to try the AD08, AD08R, R1R, RS-3V1 and Rivals in the past 3-4 seasons and I know what I like and what I don't.

I've ordered a set of RE71R's for my STR MX-5 and am looking forward to trying them out.

[xwd]

Originally Posted by qoncept

Right. And in Street, we're dealing with a class that just had a monumental rule change (biggest ever?) ultimately intended to reduce tire cost and wear. I'm pretty sure the RE71R won't be excluded, but Bridgestone appears to have made it specifically for SCCA street class and sure as hell didn't design it in the same spirit as the rule.

I don't think I have ever seen autocross mentioned by Bridgestone. We have Lemons/Chump to thank also for these new "200" TW tires.


Now the Rival-S is aimed at autocrossers and now available, at least Tirerack received some. The compound on those is soft too, not very far off from the R1S race tire...


I'm interested in how these tires will hold up in the heat. They heat up significantly faster than the RS3 or Z2*.


I guess one good thing is these tires are still significantly cheaper and much longer lasting than Hoosiers.

[tigermack]

Originally Posted by MTCRX

FWIW- It looks like Hankooks still won out over Bridgestones at El Toro. Does anyone have the final wins tally for all tires at the event? And I see the winner in STX was on Multi tires- Anyone know which tire sets and which were fastest?

They started out on the RS3V2 then switched over to the RE71R since neither of them give out contingencies for the Pro so they did it to test which is faster. Both driver on the stones said the car is much planted especially on acceleration, the rear wouldn't step out on heavy throttle and which was the game changer for them to stick with the stones for Sunday.

[G_Ride]

Originally Posted by RedBRZ80

I'm not sure the wear rate on a properly cambered STX car will be that bad, plus the tire can move to the other side once it wears a little. I've got about 25 runs on my RE71Rs and they look decent. I'll take stupid fast for extra wear.

I've seen the wear on an STU Corvette, and you're right.

[MTCRX]

Originally Posted by RedBRZ80

I'm not sure the wear rate on a properly cambered STX car will be that bad, plus the tire can move to the other side once it wears a little. I've got about 25 runs on my RE71Rs and they look decent. I'll take stupid fast for extra wear.

You are talking yourself into the Hoosier argument!

[RedBRZ80]

Early reviews of the Rival_S say it may be even faster.. So if in the end you have 2/3 tires within a blink of each other. With V720 still pending.