(2015) 200+ Treadwear Autocross Street Tire Thread

[G_Ride]

Originally Posted by Arigh

There's a thread on reddit that adds to the discussion on the RE71R. A quick summary is that after 25 runs on a WRX (245/40/17, -1.9 deg camber, settled on 33F/49R [those pressures...]) the tire was down to 3/32F and 5-6/32R.

Grip levels are being compared to almost A6 level, and the wear rate is absurd.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Autocross/co..._on_a_2015_wrx

That's what all of my friends running those tires are saying too. Grip levels and wear not far off from Hoosiers. On the bright side, a set of RE71Rs is still cheaper than a set of Hoosiers in the same size

[SeanRTR]

I'm not sure these street tires are moving in the direction we want them too.....
I can imagine 2016 Hoosier is going to have a street tire that's even softer than B-Stone, and wears even WORSE....but wrapped in a "200TW" sidewall. Price isn't going to matter, because people will buy it if it's faster. Just a matter of time before finds a way to recoup the business they lost from pre 2013 SCCA Solo Stock classes. I'll be interested to see how the Rival works, but it sounds like the B-stone has the class by the balls, and anything faster than that tire is going to wear even worse. Softer is usually faster, if the tire construction is close, and it sounds like Bridgestone nailed this aspect with stiff sidewall and broad shoulders.

[7thgear]

well, we all know the TW ratings are rather loose, but they're grounded in some sort of scale.

So either the scale has been wrong all these years, or someone isn't playing by the rules.

what if a third party tester would compare the RE7R against a basic b-stone consumer tire (if at the very least, TW ratings should be consistent in-house) and show that they are not a 200tw tire?

Maybe none of our "200tw" tires are even remotely close to being 200tw and the manufacturers have all decided to just not bother keeping each other honest? That would suck.

[BRZZZZZZZZZZ]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

well, we all know the TW ratings are rather loose, but they're grounded in some sort of scale.

So either the scale has been wrong all these years, or someone isn't playing by the rules.

what if a third party tester would compare the RE7R against a basic b-stone consumer tire (if at the very least, TW ratings should be consistent in-house) and show that they are not a 200tw tire?

Maybe none of our "200tw" tires are even remotely close to being 200tw and the manufacturers have all decided to just not bother keeping each other honest? That would suck.

There is no standardized testing so yeah third party tests could show the tires not being anywhere near the same between them...

[SeanRTR]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

Maybe none of our "200tw" tires are even remotely close to being 200tw and the manufacturers have all decided to just not bother keeping each other honest?

*Bingo


Remember in the 90's when Japaneese automakers had a gentlemans agreement for no more than 276 HP for a production car?


Yeah, that shit didn't work either.


All of these ratings are complete bullshit. Without a forced third party testing system, and no one else to tell them the tires aren't legal. Why wouldn't they just make a tire that lasts for 1 month worth of a events, so you have to keep buying tires over and over?


John said it above.....
'There goes the street class.'


He's right.

[Traum]

UTQG ratings are just "rather loose"? IMO, they are downright arbitrary, and only serves as a rough guideline within a particular manufacturer.

On a different note, a multi-time red jacket owner has reported some pretty good wear characteristics on the RE-71R:

http://www.roadraceautox.com/showthr...95#post1583295

I don't see a whole lot more wear on this car than I typically see on CS twins with RS3s. We did 20 runs this weekend and drove 120 miles each way on them. The outside front is a little worn on the very outside of the shoulder, but a lot of that was due to doing a bunch of runs with too low of pressure on the first day combined with some overdriving. RS3s usually wear in the same place. The rest still look really good, though it wasn't my car so I don't have any photo evidence to perpetuate the sky falling.

IMO, the tire literally does everything well (fast in dry, fast in wet, extremely tolerant to heat, easy to drive) so by comparison the wear I've personally witnessed so far is an acceptable trade-off.

Perhaps the tire responds (ie. wears) poorly against rough use / big slip angles, but will still reward (again, in terms of tire wear) textbook smooth and precise driving?

[7thgear]

Originally Posted by Traum

UTQG ratings are just "rather loose"? IMO, they are downright arbitrary, and only serves as a rough guideline within a particular manufacturer.

so at the very least there should be proof that the tire supports their own TW testing for all the other tires?


it just seems like they're not even bothering to follow their own guidelines


and the biggest ??? is if everyone is in on this, why does the SEB continue to
turn a blind eye on the whole thing and proliferate a useless metric?


like fucking hell, at this rate we'll have new tires appearing mid season, LOL.

[renfield90]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

what if a third party tester would compare the RE7R against a basic b-stone consumer tire (if at the very least, TW ratings should be consistent in-house) and show that they are not a 200tw tire?

Who wants to buy two sets of tires and drive them for 10,000 very rigorously controlled miles?

There isn't even a government reporting requirement you could try to get with FOIA. You will never see the results of those tests.

As long as it costs less and lasts longer than an A6 and can double as a rain tire, I'm not going to complain. Where we are now is a vast improvement over where we were.

[Laloosh]

I'm still waiting on the rival s to come out before I buy new shoes. The reviews of the stones are great however i feel like the rival s will be this years cheater tire. They messed up last year and let a lot of people down while being the primary sponsor. Who else thinks that won't happen again? And being the sponsor pretty much means you won't get put on the no no list Lol.

[TrqlessWonder]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

like fucking hell, at this rate we'll have new tires appearing mid season, LOL.

Things like that are part of the reason for the April 30th deadline every year. Can't meaningfully dictate what the tire companies are allowed to do, but that deadline means no surprises in Lincoln. Well, other than "why doesn't this work the same way on hot-as-blazes concrete?"

[renfield90]

Originally Posted by TrqlessWonder

Things like that are part of the reason for the April 30th deadline every year. Can't meaningfully dictate what the tire companies are allowed to do, but that deadline means no surprises in Lincoln. Well, other than "why doesn't this work the same way on hot-as-blazes concrete?"

Thankfully there's spring nats in May.

Originally Posted by Laloosh

I'm still waiting on the rival s to come out before I buy new shoes. The reviews of the stones are great however i feel like the rival s will be this years cheater tire. They messed up last year and let a lot of people down while being the primary sponsor. Who else thinks that won't happen again? And being the sponsor pretty much means you won't get put on the no no list Lol.

Have I mentioned they brought in a hotshot from Michelin to do the new compound, who has built WRC winning tires? It's gonna hold it's own for sure.

[G_Ride]

Originally Posted by renfield90

Have I mentioned they brought in a hotshot from Michelin to do the new compound, who has built WRC winning tires? It's gonna hold it's own for sure.

That I didn't know. With all of the testing done, I would hope the Rival S will be able put up a fight with the RE71R. I'm guessing we're going to see similar wear as the RE71R.

[7thgear]

Originally Posted by renfield90

Who wants to buy two sets of tires and drive them for 10,000 very rigorously controlled miles?

There isn't even a government reporting requirement you could try to get with FOIA. You will never see the results of those tests.

As long as it costs less and lasts longer than an A6 and can double as a rain tire, I'm not going to complain. Where we are now is a vast improvement over where we were.

I'm not saying you or I do this


I'm saying Toyo buying two Bridgestone tires and using their own testing equipment to prove that the ratings are bullshit, present this to the SCCA, in hopes of having the Bridgestone tires banned.

Good for them, they've just eliminated a competitor.

I would do this if I was in Toyo's shoes... unless their own tires would fail the same test put on by Bridgestone, which means are multi-corporate conspiracy and our wallets are the ultimate victims.

[renfield90]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

I would do this if I was in Toyo's shoes... unless their own tires would fail the same test put on by Bridgestone, which means are multi-corporate conspiracy and our wallets are the ultimate victims.

Near race tire grip on a street tire, phenomenal wet grip, should get 100 competitive runs at least, and we're victims? No. Shut up and take my money.