MT Questions

[strat61caster]

>50k miles driving MT at this point, drop in the bucket compared to some around here.

36k miles in the FR-S, totally stock and I'd say I'm buttery smooth about 85% of the time, although I may be a bit rough on passengers. I'd say that's a recent development, didn't feel confident until 10k in and wouldn't have called myself 'smooth' until about 25k.

This transmission is absolutely working the best when you're up in the powerband driving it hard imo, everything else seems to take a 'special touch' to be perfect. My advice is to be patient and try to feel it out.

However, gear grinding is a known issue and dealerships have replaced transmissions because of it, if you can consistently replicate the grind I'd bring it to a dealership and have someone ride along with you (they'll claim they couldn't find the problem if you just drop it off):
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1776277
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1008756
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1326531
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1779154

Edit: Personally I like high clutch engagements, means I don't have to waste time going to the floor and if for some reason I lose hydraulic pressure there's a chance I can get the clutch disengaged by putting my foot to the floor. It's already saved me from being stranded once. And if you can only drive a car that's a certain way it can really hinder you from jumping in a new car and taking off. But it really is whatever floats your boat, it is your car after all.

Edit 2: The car absolutely improved as I put miles on it and the fluid change I did at 30k helped. Although imo I'd save the money and wait on the fluid change unless you think it will fix something unbearable, 10k would be the earliest I'd do it.

[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by Koa

Perhaps you're trying to justify why you haven't even tried the free, reversible mods but the majority that try these out report positive results... and of those people have been some serious contributors, enthusiasts, and people who track the vehicle. That's realized, substantial positive results for 5-10 minutes of your time. I don't see your argument as sound, you don't see mine as sound..

I'm not trying to justify not using mods I don't really need, but I'm also not seeing your argument as unsound. If it works for you, that's great. I only responded to that because I see those mods thrown out at every newbie who has a problem shifting the car, and it may not be the right solution for everyone.

[Koa]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

I'm not trying to justify not using mods I don't really need, but I'm also not seeing your argument as unsound. If it works for you, that's great. I only responded to that because I see those mods thrown out at every newbie who has a problem shifting the car, and it may not be the right solution for everyone.

agreed and noted!

[wheelhaus]

@extrashaky hit a key point about feeling the notchy engagement of the synchros.

First, second, and third are all triple cone for durability, so they feel notchy during engagement. Higher gears may have double or overbuilt synchros, I'm not sure. Anyways, on low rpm shifts especially, things happen slower, so you feel more of the mechanism's movements. I think a lot of drivers are confusing this with a true grind where the synchro doesn't engage properly (over-engages without proper friction) and the baulk ring teeth try to engage but instead literally drag across each other and it feels/sounds like a loud and harsh vibration.

If it's a bad/failing synchro it will typically grind from high rpm shifts. This is where the synchro has to do the most work under the highest load, so if there's a fault, this is where it typically becomes exposed. These synchros are notchy at low rpm, sure, but at high rpm they feel fantastic.

[chaoskaze]

From experience the notchness wont go away till like 10k or you exchange fluid.

Or You can just drive hard & it will be smoother, like rev to 4k+ and shift really fast... O.o
at least that's how I stop my grind before 6kish.

[Ultramaroon]

I started thinking the tranny had broken in at around 8K. I'm at 11K and the synchros are still lapping and improving. Original fill.

I haven't really seen anything from the higher mileage guys saying when it really settles in. Feedback?
@extrashaky, you've probably read my clutch threads. I absolutely positively loathed the stock setup. "Properly" configured, there's no learning curve; no getting used to the lack of feel. It's not about whether or not one lifts or rotates. There's simply way too much throw required to modulate it with any consistency.

[86Tony]

Originally Posted by Koa

Preach shaky

To the OP and @86Tony, it may help to review the following:

2nd gear Actuation when Cold
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31929




Also, check the following DIYs that SIGNIFICANTLY help those used to "traditional" hydraulic clutches:

Easy Clutch Grab Adjustment
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8040

Clutch Helper Spring Removal in 15 Minutes
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84622


Good luck out there! Peep the helpful search site thread in my sig to find out an easier way to gain knowledge you seek

Hey thanks man, but I have no problem when cold only when warmed up I get a thunk below 3k rpm not all the time but mostly. Also I'm just waiting for warmer weather to see if the problem is less noticeable

[Vracer111]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

This!!!!!^^^^
As I have said to several on here. Don't try to force these cars into a gear just help the shifter go where it already wants to go.
A lot of guys want to grab that knob and hammer through the gears Vin Diesel style when all that is really needed is a gentle two finger push or pull at the proper time.
My son in law has drove MT all his life but can't shift mine to save his life and 4th to 5th seems to be a battle every single time.It is all because he wants to grab the lever and manhandle it around like he does with the sloppy ass shifters in the Mazdas he is so fond of. He just stares in wonder when I go from 4th to 5th with just a slight push using just the heal of my hand.

This^^^

Like Tcoat says, all you are trying to do is gently guide the shifter where it needs to be for the gear you want. Takes very minimal pressure - the harder you try to get it into gear the harder you are making it on yourself and if you are on track trying to force it into gear you might physically put it in between the gears and have to try again to get it into gear.

I changed my transmission oil immediately after break-in mileage due to going to a track day within a month of ownership when I first got the FR-S. Shifting was a little better with the Redline MT-85, but even with the stock fluid the MT was really good and smooth with zero shifting issues. Transmission issues are more driver caused than any fault of the vehicle. Just use your finger tips with minimal pressure to guide and it will slip right in with zero hesitation every time at all RPMs from under 1k to redline.

Personally I like a stiffer and notchier positive shifting action like I had with the Hurst Competition + shifter for the T5 in my 4th gen Camaro... absolutely loved that shifter; perfect balance of a precision throw and positive gear engagement! The old stock camaro shifter one was absolute GARBAGE in comparison, so vague and sloppy it was easy to miss third gear...third gear, the easiest freaking gear in a MT to grab when on the move! If I could get the FR-S shifter closer to the feel of the Hurst Competition + shifter it would be a nice thing...but I'm okay with how it is stock.

I also feel the stock clutch is VERY good... I really like it, though it could use a little more feel. Perfectly repeatable and precise in its grab point along with having minimal effort required... really is nice and easy in heavy stop and go traffic. I have had no need to change it from how it came from the factory.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Vracer111

This^^^

Personally I like a stiffer and notchier positive shifting action like I had with the Hurst Competition + shifter for the T5 in my 4th gen Camaro... absolutely loved that shifter; perfect balance of a precision throw and positive gear engagement! The old stock camaro shifter one was absolute GARBAGE in comparison, so vague and sloppy it was easy to miss third gear...third gear, the easiest freaking gear in a MT to grab when on the move! If I could get the FR-S shifter closer to the feel of the Hurst Competition + shifter it would be a nice thing...but I'm okay with how it is stock.

.

I had the same shifter in my 70 Coronet R/T and yes I agree it was a great one. I tried 3 or 4 before I found it.

[gravitylover]

Staying OT - I think my favorite was the Muncie with Hurst short throw in my old 1960 Willys CJ5. Pedal effort was a bit heavy but damn that thing was accurate and the least notchy ever.

[tekFRS234]

First, thanks for all the great responses. I think I'm going to let the car teach me how it likes to be driven (no mods). I tried TCOAT's suggestion, not manhandling it Vin D style and noticed some improvement.

Worst and fav MT is an interesting and fun topic. I'm going to start a new thread on it...

[86to86]

Two examples, best & worst. Wife has a 2014 TC, shifter feels like it's stuck in a bucket of goo. Somewhere in there are some gears, but can't realy feel where they are. Clutch is equally soft and vague, makes it very easy to shift but it's not fun.

She likes it, but doesn't like the FR-S. It's all edgy and fierce.

As long as the car will shift when you do it right, it's not the car.

Try this when driving smooth rather than fast. Back off the throttle to steady speed for 1-2 seconds before shifting. There's something about rpm and shifting times that makes smooth shifting easier.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by tekFRS234

First, thanks for all the great responses. I think I'm going to let the car teach me how it likes to be driven (no mods). I tried TCOAT's suggestion, not manhandling it Vin D style and noticed some improvement.

Worst and fav MT is an interesting and fun topic. I'm going to start a new thread on it...

Hey, thanks for the follow up! Some times wonder if anybody actually pays attention when we try to explain something.
Just keep up doing what you are doing and one day you will get where you are going and realize that you don't remember shifting and that means you got it down!


Depending if down or up shifting the hand position may change a bit but the 3 basic ways I handle the shifter are (positions slightly exaggerated for pic clarity):


No!





Yes


1st, 3rd and 5th pushed gently up and over with heal of hand (not holding knob)



2nd and 4th lightly hooked with 2 fingers and guided into place







6th same thing different angle

[Caspeed]

Good post Tcoat. Often the problem is the "Death Grip" people use when shifting.

As far as the 2nd gear cold shift "issue". I have it every now and then, but it's not an problem for me. It feels to me, not like a tranny problem but more, like a clutch not fully releasing or dragging. Which would explain why the synchro resists the shift.