Evo Magazine - GT86 better than BRZ

[tripjammer]

Originally Posted by mines13

I do not own a WRX, but if you have a 2012 WRX to loan me...

Its on bro! LOL!

Do you want to do a straight line at a airfield or some mountain track or an autocross?

[stateless]

I think the first article was intended to punish Subaru for sending them an auto, and perhaps rightfully so, but in the end it still makes EVO look dumb. They should have refused the auto.

[tripjammer]

Originally Posted by Memphis

.... You know I understand where you are coming from. I truly do. I am in no way trying to troll or get on the bad side of anyone.

But am I truly beating a dead horse? The FR-S is more than just an "experience." Its supposed to handle as well. Albeit with driver connection. Yet a Mini S will "murder it." Mini S are fun as crap to drive.

There are people on here expecting this thing to at least keep up with other cars. The only car I have seen it actually beat is the Miata. Which, Miatas are fun as crap to drive as well.

Im just saying, dont turn a blind eye towards the faults of the FR-S. How long will that experience last? After the hype dies down? After DD the car for a couple of months?

This is the affordable sports car with RWD. Yet the Genesis is another viable option with pretty close to the same price tag even though its heavier and SUPPOSEDLY less engaging. Remember, looks and feel are subjective.

Its always something to think about. Its just taboo to bring it up here. In the end its just opinions mixed in with a little bit of facts. Opinions seem to be what will sell this car. Fact seems to be what will make some turn away which is fine. More cars for those that want it.

This will truly be an enthusiasts car if it cant compete with other cars regardless of the "experience." Not that I am the least bit upset about it.

I would still take a FR-S over the bloated WRX with its lowly 5 speed manual.....but if Subaru can make the next generation WRX lighter (less than 3000 pounds) and better driving with a 6 speed manual and a 2.0 liter turbo flat 4 with 270HP...its on. Oh and dump that engine into the BRZ STI. I think they will.

But the current WRX is cool for what it is. There is no other turbo flat 4 AWD sports sedan that cost around $26k starting...So I do give it respect.

I think Scion is actually saved by the FR-S.

[Zgrinch]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

Why do people rip on the interior quality? When me and ZGrinch was at the auto show just about every part of the interior was top notch soft touch plastics(75%). The areas you touch is the best areas. That's the only part of this review that baffles me. My RSX has 5% soft plastics so 75% in the BRZ/GT86 Premium is a step up.

+1 This review is a joke. I love the interior and the way way it is truely oriented to the driver.

[mines13]

Originally Posted by tripjammer

Its on bro! LOL!

Do you want to do a straight line at a airfield or some mountain track or an autocross?

Bench racing aside, I really do not think you would really want to do that. A 2012 WRX will cream an FR-S on a full race track, all things being equal. Odds would be better for then FR-S in an autocross.

[dsgerbc]

Originally Posted by mines13

A 2012 WRX will cream an FR-S on a full race track, all things being equal.

Sweeping statements are almost always wrong. There are plenty of tight "handling" race tracks where WRX265 won't get to stretch it's legs.

[mines13]

Originally Posted by tripjammer

I would still take a FR-S over the bloated WRX with its lowly 5 speed manual.....but if Subaru can make the next generation WRX lighter (less than 3000 pounds) and better driving with a 6 speed manual and a 2.0 liter turbo flat 4 with 270HP...its on. Oh and dump that engine into the BRZ STI. I think they will.

But the current WRX is cool for what it is. There is no other turbo flat 4 AWD sports sedan that cost around $26k starting...So I do give it respect.

I think Scion is actually saved by the FR-S.

I would never consider purchasing a WRX, for some of the reasons you stated and a few others... I am looking forward to owning my FR-S, but I have no disillusions that it is faster then all of its contemporaries at the same price point.

[mines13]

Originally Posted by dsgerbc

Sweeping statements are almost always wrong. There are plenty of tight "handling" race tracks where WRX265 won't get to stretch it's legs.

What track would that be exactly? Please define "handling" and how a late model WRX would not be able to stretch it's legs... The AWD system and broad flat torque curve would provide some pretty significant corner exit acceleration performance, even with the open front differential.

[Rik84]

If you are looking for a car that is blisteringly quick in a straight line, or around a corner, or on a track - neither the BRZ or FRS are the right car.

My last performance car was a 2008 Evo X running 2 stage methanol and every bolt on you could imagine coupled with hours upon hours of dyno and street tuning. Started at 170whp hp (mustang dyne's run notoriously low) and ended at 315whp. Stock they are rated at 291 bhp so best guess was that I was around 450bhp.

To keep this from turning into a long ass story, that car was a blast but also a pain in the ass.

I'm stoked on an FRS (although I wish I didn't have to buy a damn Scion to get what I wanted) because it is going to be a stripped down, agile, fun rwd sport coupe. I don't care if a cooper S is faster, a Megane turbo in Europe, a WRX, a Genesis, or a Mustang.

My Evo ran high 11's and cornered like a god damn monster, but I'm more excited about this FRS. Small, fun and just enjoyable. Who gives a damn which car is faster.

At the end of day, I'm not sure how many of us are going to be going around trying to find other little cars and guys with little wieners to race around town and prove who has a lower sperm count.

Just enjoy the cars, let's all build a good supportive community to build off of, and keep off the armchair racing comments to ourselves - anyone can say their car is faster, but who the f*** cares.

[Captain Snooze]

[rant]
Here is consumer item "x". Be it a car,camera, electric shaver what ever. "x" can only be one design. It CANNOT be all things to all people. This camera over here was rated 8/10 but for 5% of people who have large hands the controls are too small. For a different 5% of people, who have small hands, the camera is too heavy Here is car "x". It has "y" horsepower. It will be enough for some people, not enough for others. The BRZ/86 will an excellent car in it's standard form for those people who like the BRZ/86 in it's standard form. (Obvious statement I know). For others they will want to modify it.

No one is forcing you to buy this car. If you like it you can buy it. If it isn't the car for you then don't buy it. There is NO point saying "if only it did this,had this much power,weighed this much, had an ice cream maker in the boot" because here it is.
[/rant]

[mines13]

As I mentioned earlier, I do not care which car is "faster". To the point that I can admit that while car B (whatever it may be) may be quicker, I still am looking forward to car A (FR-S). I just find it funny that some people are so caught up in the fan boy antics that they can't accept that a competing vehicle may, indeed, outperform their dream. I personally could care less who has the faster car, whatever metrics one chooses to determine that.

[dsgerbc]

Originally Posted by mines13

What track would that be exactly? Please define "handling" and how a late model WRX would not be able to stretch it's legs... The AWD system and broad flat torque curve would provide some pretty significant corner exit acceleration performance, even with the open front differential.

BRZ will carry more speed through corners. Throw enough of those and WRX265 won't catch up. I'm not really sure what's there to debate/prove. There will be plenty of courses where wrx will be faster, there will be enough of those when it won't.

[Sport-Tech]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Also interesting he found the FR-S understeered more steady-state, (but was more willing to slide its tail out under power).

Ummm - no. What he actually said was "Understeer, so rare in the BRZ, is never far away." He is not saying it has steady-state understeer, just that understeer is closer to being realized in the FR-S, ie that it takes less to invoke it.

Looks like I pulled the trigger on the right Subiyota.

[Spaceywilly]

Originally Posted by Scion FR-S

Ummm - no. What he actually said was "Understeer, so rare in the BRZ, is never far away." He is not saying it has steady-state understeer, just that understeer is closer to being realized in the FR-S, ie that it takes less to invoke it.

Looks like I pulled the trigger on the right Subiyota.

It's just another review who thinks oversteer = fun. If you continue reading,

Understeer, so rare in the BRZ, is never too far away. However, it's just a signal to reappraise how you're driving the GT86. Dial back your entry speeds a little and, when the front is hooked into the apex, get hard on the gas. The GT86 shifts its balance, the rear just starting to float a few degrees wide. It's the first sign that Toyota's different philosophy will actually be tangible.

Drive a squiggle of tarmac as you would a BRZ and the GT86 actually starts to come undone. It can't live with the Subaru's ability to change direction, and, if you're too aggressive, the body can feel like it's lolling from side to side. However, that little shift in balance I mentioned encourages you to improvise. Try a lift on turn-in and the chassis shows more of its playfulness, the rear arching wider than before. Stay on the power and it will oversteer nicely, progressively, with none of the snap-back exhibited by the BRZ.

Basically, if you want power oversteer get the FR-S. If you want high speed turn-in and neutral handling get the BRZ. Or just do what most people here will do and tune the suspension to your own liking.