Positives & Negatives On Kraftwerks Supercharger vs Jackson Racing Kits

[sprintamx]

vgi
"btw, you sound like a salesmen praising Moto-East in every post. We got it first time - Mike is good but if I didn't know him I'd think he pays you for every mentioning."


I really need to call Mike and ask him where my commission checks are.


I'm an unapologetic happy customer: so what? Personal experience with a kit and an installer is off-limits? Any way, peace-out.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by vgi

@sprintamx "... upgraded MAF and a wide-band o2 sensor for more precise tuning ... " and "..None of this stuff is necessary with the JRSC."??? @CSG Mike @Jackson Racing - you guys thanked this post even though it's misleading? ftw
1. none of this is necessary for KW kit
2. people who go with hybrid MAF/SD or pure SD tunes upgrade their MAP sensor (MAP != MAF) and MAP sensor is included in tuned KW kit. and before anyone comments, the hybrid MAF/SD is NOT necessary, D-VO tuned his car with c38 kit using RomRaider/tactrix, pure MAF tune (although i donno how he didn't hit the MAFV limit or worked around it).
3. anyone looking to get most out of an FI kit or simply well dialed in and safe tune should have an wbo2 sensor. that is for ANY FI kit. i bet you've got a canned tune from Mike with some quick 1hr street driving tweaking.
btw, you sound like a salesmen praising Moto-East in every post. We got it first time - Mike is good but if I didn't know him I'd think he pays you for every mentioning.

You must have missed the second and third paragraphs of that same post.

Originally Posted by sprintamx

What are your power and daily drivability goals? Research whether you might need fuel injectors and a pump to handle increased flow on e85; research the value of installing a catless header; research installing an upgraded MAF and a wide-band o2 sensor for more precise tuning and power; research whether you'll want a flex fuel system if you plan to move between e85 and standard pump gas.


None of this stuff is necessary with the JRSC. As the CSG guys have said time and time again: install, flash and go really does work with this setup. The good thing is you can easily and happily use the well developed JR tune, or just as easily go with a 3rd party tuner like Delicious or Moto-East, etc. Personally, I opted for several upgrades and had Moto-East do the full install. Excellent work and tuning.


The point of all this is that the JR kit is very plug 'n play and a complete solution in its own right, but if you want to tweak, there's lot of easy options too.


Enjoy!

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by ScionFR-S

My goals are to add some more power to add to the fun of my daily driving. I don't autocross or go on windy roads as I live in NYC... I have installed hawk hps pads about four months ago and very happy with them. I will look into getting SS brake lines, Motul brake fluid, maybe new slotted and drilled rotors. I have already a catless open flash UEL header, Perrin overpipe, motiv hfc front pipe stock mid pipe and Greddy axleback exhaust. I will stay on 93 octane and not transfer over to e85 at all bc it's not available near me
Goals are to have a bad ass car that's fun and can beat most punks who want to see what this little car can do. ** I also have an AUTO FRS will that be a problem with this kit ?

Zero issues with Auto

[Freeman]

Originally Posted by vgi

agree 100%. i didn't follow JR owners thread at all but same thing was happening to vortex and sprintex kits, i was hoping to avoid that.

i do think people are over-tightening the belts, i know i did

I believe KW tells us to tighten to 21mm on the tensioner, and recently one owner called and found out it was actually less than what we were told. So I'm surprised more belts dont break.

(I could be wrong, its buried in the owners thread and im too busy at work to find the specific posts)

[CSG David]

Originally Posted by vgi

agree 100%. i didn't follow JR owners thread at all but same thing was happening to vortex and sprintex kits, i was hoping to avoid that.

i do think people are over-tightening the belts, i know i did

Vortech and Sprintex had their issues in the beginning and eventually it got remedied. The important thing to note that calculating tension and proper belt wrap is something that the company/manufacturer should be doing, not you. Jackson Racing put in the proper legwork to ensure everything works as intended. If belt snapping is an issue, then every single engine manufacturer is retarded for continuously using the same "archaic" serpentine belt system.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by vgi

no, i did not.

let me go over each stmt.

second paragraph:

"None of this stuff is necessary with the JRSC." - none of this stuff (see 1st paragraph) is necessary with KW kit either running on 91/93, the sameas JR kit. now if talking about e85 then JR kit will need the same upgrades the KW kit would - fuel pump and injectors.

"As the CSG guys have said time and time again: install, flash and go really does work with this setup." - the same with KW w/tune kit

"The good thing is you can easily and happily use the well developed JR tune, or just as easily go with a 3rd party tuner like Delicious or Moto-East, etc." - the same for KW w/tune kit

"Personally, I opted for several upgrades and had Moto-East do the full install." - the same for KW kit

"Excellent work and tuning." - the same for KW kit



third paragraph:

"The point of all this is that the JR kit is very plug 'n play and a complete solution in its own right, but if you want to tweak, there's lot of easy options too." - the same for KW kit


So now tell me how is this post useful (unless you like happy customer cheer-leading) and deserves a 'thanks' in thread with "Positives & Negatives On Kraftwerks Supercharger vs Jackson Racing Kits".

It just look like you're thanking all pro-JR posts

How many people know how to properly tension belts and have the ability to do so at their home?

For the California people, CARB is pretty important unless you want to face a $2000+ fine. I was actually at court yesterday for one such citation in the CSG BRZ. Fortunately, being CARB legal, the citation was dismissed.

[CSG David]

Originally Posted by vgi

if you defend Vortech and Sprintex then you're not being fair to KW - the kit has been out for a year and they are addressing issues.

i'm not "calculating tension and proper belt wrap" - the manual clearly states how to set proper tension based on sound frequency. The problem is that the tool cost too much and apparently setting the tension by distance to plate didn't work that well PS just like your post above

i'm not sure i follow what does belt snapping has to do with either serpentine or cogged belt

KW is the only one that requires you to manually set that tension. The sound frequency is variable from car to car so you cannot follow what every other KW owner is doing. Since you are a KW kit owner, you should demand KW to provide a list of modification breakdown and what tension to use based on the different frequencies that each mod does. After all, KW has a team of 30 engineers so they should be more than capable of providing that simple information. This includes different chassis bars, rollbars, welded/bolted, headers (10 different types of headers), 20 different types of catbacks, etc. This is information that should be readily available for your setup considering their system is supposed to be comprehensive.

[John92]

Originally Posted by CSG David

KW is the only one that requires you to manually set that tension. The sound frequency is variable from car to car so you cannot follow what every other KW owner is doing. Since you are a KW kit owner, you should demand KW to provide a list of modification breakdown and what tension to use based on the different frequencies that each mod does. After all, KW has a team of 30 engineers so they should be more than capable of providing that simple information. This includes different chassis bars, rollbars, welded/bolted, headers (10 different types of headers), 20 different types of catbacks, etc. This is information that should be readily available for your setup considering their system is supposed to be comprehensive.

Good thing you can download the Gates Belt app on your phone and set the belt tension properly. Takes one minute to set it to the correct tension with the app.

[FirestormFRS]

CSG you guys are normally great, but you have derailed this thread into a KW bash. You made your points early on why not leave it at that?

[Poodles]

Originally Posted by sw20kosh

Belts are not supposed to snap on a properly designed system. I haven't heard of any JRSC belts snapping. I have heard of more than a few KW belts snapping though...

This.


Look at all the OEM superchargers and how they don't use a separate belt or a toothed belt.

[CSG David]

Originally Posted by John92

Good thing you can download the Gates Belt app on your phone and set the belt tension properly. Takes one minute to set it to the correct tension with the app.

That app is pretty cool. However, it took 13 months for someone to come up with that solution. Unfortunately, that also means every single KW installer did not have that app in the past. Would that indicate that those installers be held responsible for failure to install correctly? That's the same as having KW throw their dealers under the bus. That's highly unlikely as that benefits absolutely no one.

Originally Posted by FirestormFRS

CSG you guys are normally great, but you have derailed this thread into a KW bash. You made your points early on why not leave it at that?

In world class engineering facilities, risk assessment matrix and FRACAS system are utilized to identify the underlying failure issues and what can be done to remedy or mitigate them. Making the solution easier and more reliable for the end user should be utmost priority. Not everybody is perfect, but it's something to think about when identifying what level of analysis was performed during R&D phase. Identify the scope and work from there.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by FirestormFRS

CSG you guys are normally great, but you have derailed this thread into a KW bash. You made your points early on why not leave it at that?

Because we really, REALLY don't like it when promises are made, and not kept. We don't like it when false claims are made too, but of course our demands for testing and/or data are shrugged off by the manufacturer.

KW is not the only vendor/manufacturer we've asked this of; this is standard practice when we are evaluating products for use on the CSG BRZ.

It's particularly important to note that the CSG BRZ has zero product sponsorships. Every single product used and/or tested on the CSG BRZ is purchased by CSG through a normal retail or dealer channel.

[wootwoot]

Mike hates on KW every chance he gets, no doubt about it. But he does it with facts, so what can you really do?

[Andrew025]

Originally Posted by wootwoot

Mike hates on KW every chance he gets, no doubt about it. But he does it with facts, so what can you really do?

Sometimes the truth hurts.