Scion FT-86 FR-S

[Dark]

Originally Posted by Siriusly.Andrew

"s.th" is his way of saying "something". Took me a while to decipher his code lol.

So basically

Group A wants a TOYOTA sports car

Group B doesn't care - they want a Sports car lol

I'm a part of group A while your apart of Group B so I guess, in the eyes of the general forum populace, we're bitter enemies. How the heck does that work lol?

This forums will be so much boring if there is either A alone or B alone. LOL

[oneday]

Originally Posted by Siriusly.Andrew

"s.th" is his way of saying "something". Took me a while to decipher his code lol.

Ah...thank you.

Originally Posted by Siriusly.Andrew

So basically

Group A wants a TOYOTA sports car

Group B doesn't care - they want a Sports car lol

Yeah, that seems to sum it up nicely.

Originally Posted by Siriusly.Andrew

I'm a part of group A while your apart of Group B so I guess, in the eyes of the general forum populace, we're bitter enemies.

Yes we may be in different camps but we still want the same outcome: We both (all) want a sports car, above all else.

Originally Posted by e30m3sportevo

it seems that i'll be in for a much longer stay in the bmw camp.

There are worst places to stay...at least at BMW Camp you have fancy bottled water, can park in two parking spaces at a time and get an over inflated sense of self worth!

Even if the FT-86 is a Scion in the US, it will still get sold in other markets as a Toyota. Toyota would have a hard time justifying another car platform that only gets sold in one market in this kind of global economy.

Originally Posted by Dark

This forums will be so much boring if there is either A alone or B alone. LOL

This.

[DantKR]

Originally Posted by Dark

Sorry dawg, I wanted to say " doesn't". Gen coupe doesn't sell well compare to its competitors.

When I test drove the track V6 I honestly didn't feel impressed by it D;

[Dark]

Originally Posted by DantKR

When I test drove the track V6 I honestly didn't feel impressed by it D;

Right, It's not as solid as the Z or Stang. Z should be more solid since it can hold up with big boy Porsche Cayman. Stang in the other hand, has improve so much since the previous gen. I see Gen Coupe as an angry cat, and that's not a good thing.

[Dark]

@one day
sorry, I do texting so much.

[70NYD]

Originally Posted by oneday

Yes, I own a tC
The tC is not my track car or one of the cars I race with--I occasionally put it to use on the track to shuttle students around and show them the line or what a well set up car can do in capable hands (keeping up with and/or passing "faster" or "more powerful" cars with a underpowered, rolling-greenhouse is fun too)
I work in the performance aftermarket industry; I hold competition licenses with multiple sanctioning bodies; I instruct novice drivers and spend as much time on the track as I can afford--which is not nearly enough. And I don't do these things with just one brand or model. I've had the privilege to drive and instruct students in everything from Porsche 911s to Pontiac Grand Ams and have, with one sanctioning body or another, raced in more makes and models then I care to list. My point here is that I see and hear what people want from and what they do to their cars. I also experience first hand what people actually do with their cars once they are modified.

oh man i know a few of you ppl.. all im gonna say is that the last time i went to a track day, the lead instructor there (who was a VERY good driver) told me that any car would perform best with 90psi in the tires (yes ninety pounds per square inch) at which point i ignored him for the rest of the day (my brain functions on sound reason)
my point being is that even if shumaher or alonso started talking to me about anything in regards to cars i would only beleive them as far as they can actually back it up with facts, are making sense and are not saying shit and expecting me to beleive it due to their creditations. being good at driving means squat compared to knowing a car and knowing what setup works better and why. works in both ways, if you know how to design a weekend race car from scratch and know how to set it up doesnt mean you know how to drive..
also no offense but those posts are HUGE, interesting but HUGE. i could post a reply that long or i can go and have some fun with my girlfriend.. she just woke up so i know what im doing
peace

[chulooz]

Originally Posted by Siriusly.Andrew

"s.th" is his way of saying "something". Took me a while to decipher his code lol.

So basically

Group A wants a TOYOTA sports car

Group B doesn't care - they want a Sports car lol

I'm a part of group A while your apart of Group B so I guess, in the eyes of the general forum populace, we're bitter enemies. How the heck does that work lol?

+

Group C wants a Subaru sports car I am hoping <that< is an AWD burn out, hahaha.

[Siriusly.Andrew]

Originally Posted by chulooz

+

Group C wants a Subaru sports car I am hoping <that< is an AWD burn out, hahaha.

Group C, right-o. I kinda forgot Subaru is a part of this as well lol

[Dimman]

One source of my rage (local meet in Vancouver, before Canada had the misfortune of the brand's availability):




(Pause for everyone to now realize I was absolutely right in my Scion-directed hate...)


No? Ok then.



DanKR: http://www.scion.com/scionracing/ It exists, they're spending money on it, at the very least my hyperbolic description of the tC owners is a goal of the campaign. So either it is working and getting wannabe drifters into Scions, or a horrible waste of money. Lose-lose.

Originally Posted by oneday

So what. They are still purpose built racecars that have so little in common with the factory car it's hardly worth mentioning.

I'm going to pick on the Pastrana example. The pics that follow are from a local rally team, Rocket Rally. And to put things in perspective, Pat Richard, the team owner and driver, won the inaugural Rally America overall title in 2005 before Pastrana's 4-peat. Now what will we find under the hood?

OMG a tranversely mounted sidevalve V10 powering only the front wheels! It's like nothing I've ever seen before in a Subaru!

Wait a minute... That's suspiciously like a regular Subaru H4. OMG the intercooler's been moved to the front! So has the throttle body! It's like nothing I've ever seen before! Only a top racing team laboratory could come up with such an advanced modification!

Urg, that's even too much sarcasm for me. Basically what I'm saying is, the difference between an Open class rally Subaru and an STI you buy off the floor is pretty small. And when we talk about realistic modifications that people do, it's downright minor. These things make way less power than a lot of modded street-driven Subies.

They're no more purpose built motors than what are in some of my friends' cars. (strengthened internals, head work, minor mods to a stock crank, not cheap, but not out of the league of most mortals, like the complete remake of the tC)









Alonso's Ferrari is a purpose-built racecar, the 'Camry' NASCARs are purpose-built racecars, and Foust's tC is a purpose-built race car. The rest are still production-based, and taking an STI to Open class rally spec is hardly the same thing as 'converting' a tC to be a RWD V8 smoke machine. And at least the Ferrari will have more relevant technology trickle-down to its street cars than the Camry or tC...

Originally Posted by oneday

And you can't be polite while being thorough? I did not realize they needed to be mutually exclusive.

Not when it comes to Scion.

Originally Posted by oneday

You just described probably 75% (just for the record, I made that stat up to illustrate a point) of automotive enthusiasts.

However this is the first brand to fit the bill. Yes poseurs can buy Porsches, but Porsche still makes real performance cars. Hell, even Hyundai decided to try to walk the walk this time, instead of just converting a Tiburon, like they did with their rally efforts.

Originally Posted by oneday

The "Lawyers will make them water it down" argument is tired and ignorant.

Originally Posted by oneday

Yes, money was not being discussed, only chassis & drivetrain layout vs driving dynamics. Dimman had implied that a motor positioned behind the front axle would cause too many wrecks and I was simply pointing out the flaw in that logic. If you prefer I could talk about the VW Beetle (no, not the New Beetle)? Or, there is the case of the Nissan 350Z/G35 with their notoriously twitchy and litigation riddled FMR chassis. Oh, sorry, that platform does quite well, actually....must be the more powerful motor that helps.

What's maybe ignorant is being unaware that Toyota has already done this once with the SW20 MR-2.

Old Beetle example is ridiculous due to the era.

Nissan's FMR is not as extreme as they would have you believe.

Originally Posted by oneday

Maybe Toyoda's intent with selling the FT as a Scion is to make the brand more than just a "Youth" brand, maybe he wants to see it also become something of a sportier brand since Toyota is regarded as a stodgier, appliance, family brand?

This has been brought up often. And I will continue to vehemently disagree. Both Nissan and Subaru have managed to shake up their 'meh' images with good product, no re-branding needed. If your tC had been a Camry or a Corolla coupe, you would have still bought it I'll assume. Same goes with 'non-target demographic' xB buyers that wanted an affordable, practical vehicle.

I do not hate Toyota. I hate their retarded marketing decision to waste tons of money on Scion when they could have just worked on better products.

And in addition to all my 'regular' Scion hate. I'm now being bombarded with lame, annoying and insulting ads as Scion is now available in Canada! They don't even call them 'dealerships' for fuck sakes...


My big issue is if a company makes more money from a marketing-driven brand than from an innovation/engineering-drive brand, what does that mean for the future products? We will get even more heavily marketed transport appliances masquerading as 'real' performance vehicles. Dark days...


PS:

Originally Posted by oneday

The bulk of the aftermarket industry is form over function, it does not matter if it is for Mustangs, 911s, WRXs or Supras (especially Mk3s).

Did you hit '3' when you meant '4'?

I will paraphrase a common Mk3 Supra joke:

A: What kind of car do you drive?
B: Supra
A: OMGYOUARETHECOOLESTPERSONIVEEVERMETCANISEEIT?????! !!???!!?? (Instant fanboy)
B: It's right there.
A: (sees it is a Mk3) OMGYOUARETHEBIGGESTLOSERIVEEVERMETICANTBELIEVEIMTA LKINGTOYOU!!!(Instant hater)

[Siriusly.Andrew]

Originally Posted by Dimman

One source of my rage (local meet in Vancouver, before Canada had the misfortune of the brand's availability):




I will paraphrase a common Mk3 Supra joke:

A: What kind of car do you drive?
B: Supra
A: OMGYOUARETHECOOLESTPERSONIVEEVERMETCANISEEIT?????! !!???!!?? (Instant fanboy)
B: It's right there.
A: (sees it is a Mk3) OMGYOUARETHEBIGGESTLOSERIVEEVERMETICANTBELIEVEIMTA LKINGTOYOU!!!(Instant hater)

The guy in that photo looks, strangely enough, like my Jr. High science teacher... I always wondered where he went.

And I don't know about you guys, but I had no trouble at all reading the OMGYOUROCK/SUCK stuff at the end there. That seems strange to me lol.

[nate89]

Originally Posted by Siriusly.Andrew

The guy in that photo looks, strangely enough, like my Jr. High science teacher... I always wondered where he went.

And I don't know about you guys, but I had no trouble at all reading the OMGYOUROCK/SUCK stuff at the end there. That seems strange to me lol.

Mystery Solved!

[Allch Chcar]

Originally Posted by chulooz

+Group C wants a Subaru sports car I am hoping <that< is an AWD burn out, hahaha.

Actually I believe it is a RWD burnout by the consistency in the trail and that is definitely the rear tires breaking loose when the Smiley shifts into second gear.


Good discussion going BTW .

The Genesis and Mustang v6 are Pony cars whereas the Nissan Z is a bona fide Sports car. It's not fair IMHO to compare the Mustang v6 or Genesis to the Nissan Z, they are not even in the same price bracket or market as the Nissan Z. And the Mustang is high volume car selling 50k-100k a year, especially considering it is only ever sold as a RWD coupe. That is all I had to add, thank you and good day.

[Dark]

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

The Genesis and Mustang v6 are Pony cars whereas the Nissan Z is a bona fide Sports car. It's not fair IMHO to compare the Mustang v6 or Genesis to the Nissan Z, they are not even in the same price bracket or market as the Nissan Z. And the Mustang is high volume car selling 50k-100k a year, especially considering it is only ever sold as a RWD coupe. That is all I had to add, thank you and good day.

Chill out, dude. I only said the fact, the statistics. Even if its main competitor is Stang alone, Stang outsell Gen Coupe badly. Actually, Gen Coupe is in the gap between the Z and Stang, so it's their competitors. I didn't say the Z compete directly with Stang.

[DantKR]

Originally Posted by Dimman

One source of my rage (local meet in Vancouver, before Canada had the misfortune of the brand's availability):




(Pause for everyone to now realize I was absolutely right in my Scion-directed hate...)


No? Ok then.

Holy crap! Except that's EVERY SINGLE CAR at those types of competitions. I've seen fucking 240z's 350z's with fucking gull wings and fucking "pimped out". Picking on Scion solely and hating them for it is absolutely retarded. How about you rage at the entire scene instead of just Scion because, again the fact that you only only rage at scion confuses the shit out of me.

The Genesis and Mustang v6 are Pony cars whereas the Nissan Z is a bona fide Sports car. It's not fair IMHO to compare the Mustang v6 or Genesis to the Nissan Z, they are not even in the same price bracket or market as the Nissan Z. And the Mustang is high volume car selling 50k-100k a year, especially considering it is only ever sold as a RWD coupe. That is all I had to add, thank you and good day.

Nissan 370Z starts at $30k
Ford Mustang starts at $22k
Hyundai Gen Coup V6 stars at $26K

So If the Mustang and Gen compete then the 370 should be in range to compete w/ the Gen. At least IMO ;x