Why Innovate supercharger?

[Alltezza]

So, I'm not best at wording things, most of you innovate owners may hate me but I'm simply asking question not just from you guys, but from people who have driven/have multiple SC kits aside from Innovate.

Okay so I watched this video.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnBPFzurDH4"]Review: Innovate Supercharged Scion FR-S - YouTube[/ame]

It's that SubaruWRXfan guy who some how got his fans to buy him a 2015 Mustang.

Anyway he did a review about the Innovate Supercharger on the FRS.

I don't care much about the automatic part because I don't drive one and this subject I'm asking about is the Innovate Supercharger kit.

But I noticed before I got my BRZ I noticed a lot of people were all about "Twin screw" and a lot of people were raving about the Innovate kit.

I'm actually trying to figure out why would anyone buy an Innovate supercharger, when you can buy the Jackson Supercharger or Kraftwerks, and let's not forget Vortech for the same price and have MUCH higher HP.

If you look at the dyno charts, the only thing I see that the Stage 2 Intercooled Innovate had over the centrifugal SC was that 1-4K RPM TQ range, but at the higher RPMs it just gets left behind by the centrifugal SCs.

I got that information from here.
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55705

The stage 2 innovate kit should cost around 4000 but my biggest question is that if you're spending 4000 dollars, why not buy a Jackson/KW or Vortech and get more horses and get much more torque in the mid to higher RPM area.

I know I might sound like I'm completely hating on the Innovate kit, in a way yes I kind of am, because from my point of view you can spend the same amount of money on a better SC kit. But I really want to know, what I'm missing?
I'm not trying to hate on the innovate kit, I just strongly believe that there are much better options, but I also want to know why this kit is/was so popular.

Was Innovate the very first super charger to come out and that's why everyone wanted it?
I don't know, I also noticed that innovate kits are either rare or no longer on sale, did something happen?

I would ask more questions but I don't really want to make this a giant wall of text. I apologize if I somehow pissed anyone off or if I offended anyone, again I'm just simply asking questions and trying to learn something new.

UPDATE:

From what I'm seeing this is mostly down to personal preference, a lot of people who daily drive our cars tend to like the early torque curve and usually won't spend that much time in the higher RPM range. Also lets not forget about that nice whine sound!

In my case though, I don't see it as a good deal because a Jackson/KW or Vortech offers more torque and more HP in the higher RPM range and also passes emissions.

[Raven604]

...

[s2d4]

Good to see the forum hasn't changed since I went away.

[Alltezza]

God damnit lol I'm guessing I won't be getting any good answers then

[Dipstik-sportech]

Research the differences between the centrifugal and positive displacement supercharger and there re read your question.

[FirestormFRS]

Plains vs mountain peak

[malave7567]

"Innovate" kit is no longer for sale. They were just the North America distributor for the Sprintex kit. Sprintex is selling it themselves in North America now. That may account for your seeing Innovate kits "Out of Stock", etc.

A positive displacement blower like a twin screw is supposed to feel like the name implies... that you just have more displacement in the engine. Take a 2.0 liter and make it feel like you're driving a 2.5 or 3.0 liter.

When it comes to superchargers/turbos, everyone has a preference. Best way to find out what you'd be happy with is to just ride in them, if possible, even if it's not this car, to know the characteristics of each FI type.

Btw, the Vortech, I believe, was the first supercharger to market for this car, and they have gone through numerous revisions to upgrade their kit since then. Still a good choice as well.

[BRZZZZZZZZZZ]

I currently have a vehicle with a twin screw blower and one with a centrifugal charger (Kraftwerks) The twin screw powered vehicle feels like your riding a wave of torque almost everywhere but feels pretty anemic at high RPMs. It suits a daily driver and big vehicle in my opinion.

My BRZ has the Kraftwerks C38 kit on it, nothing crazy. It still feels naturally aspirated in terms of where the torque is, and its not as suited to daily driving (which I don't anyway).

What do you plan to use your car for? There's pros and cons for both kits.

[Freeman]

Personal preference. The sooner you learn to accept that people will do what they want despite what you think they should do, the less stress you'll have in your life.

[DJCarbine]

Originally Posted by Freeman

Personal preference. The sooner you learn to accept that people will do what they want despite what you think they should do, the less stress you'll have in your life.

^ The true secret to life

[mokinbird87]

I think the answer is "personal preference". Let's just say if you wanted high horsepower and not worry about CARB, turbo is the way to go. I have been in cars with HKS turbo set up running 7 psi, Jackson racing kit, and the innovate kit. Turbo is no doubt the fastest and with twin scroll set ups nowadays turbo lag on smaller turbos is virtually gone. However, I really really liked the instant push from the innovate kit. Jackson kit I'm sure makes more power (as dyno suggests) but I don't care for the linear power delivery... I like the kick in the pants that innovate provides. But this is why Jackson would be better for track racing and I believe has better cooling capabilities. If I wanted a high horsepower car and do fast 0-60 times I bought a wrong car... But the innovate for me, makes the car feel super responsive where as the Jackson kit feels similar to stock.

[bfrank1972]

My 2 cents - very much what you prefer and what you want to do with the car.

"Area under the curve" - how much time do you spend in your car 2k-5k vs 5k-7k?

Also the link you provided is not one of my favorites - not a very fair comparison between kits, some kits have cats, some kits don't, varying octane, varying environments for dynos, etc. Interesting comparison if you're just looking at the *shape* of the output curve, but for direct numbers comparison it's sorely lacking.

Well tuned and optimized innovate kits on 93 octane are right around the 290-300whp mark, with a flat torque curve to boot.

Well tuned centrifugal compressors will almost always produce higher peak numbers, but both systems when well tuned will push the limits of the stock clutch even on 93 octane, not to mention E85.

Also many people like the wicked twin screw whine associated with the Innovate (and some people prefer the subtle jet whistle of a centrifugal unit).

So the question is, how fast do you want to go? If you want ultimate speed, then stop talking about differences in price between kits, because you'll need to open up your wallet to other things to have properly done high hp system.

FWIW I think I read somewhere in this thread somebody talking about 'spooling' with centrifugal superchargers. There's no such thing - they *do* build boost in an exponential fashion relative to RPM, but there's no lag associated with a belt driven centrifugal supercharger. Bring RPMS up to 6000rpm, and then put your foot in it, and you'll get sharp and immediate response from any of the belt driven centrifugal systems. Turbochargers are another story - a well matched turbo on our modern high compression engines will be responsive compared to the turbo systems of 'yesteryear', but the throttle response will never match a supercharger (it will always feel 'softer' on tip in).

[malave7567]

Originally Posted by bfrank1972

FWIW I think I read somewhere in this thread somebody talking about 'spooling' with centrifugal superchargers. There's no such thing - they *do* build boost in an exponential fashion relative to RPM, but there's no lag associated with a belt driven centrifugal supercharger. Bring RPMS up to 6000rpm, and then put your foot in it, and you'll get sharp and immediate response from any of the belt driven centrifugal systems. Turbochargers are another story - a well matched turbo on our modern high compression engines will be responsive compared to the turbo systems of 'yesteryear', but the throttle response will never match a supercharger (it will always feel 'softer' on tip in).

Sorry, that was me, and I chose the wrong word for it. You described what I meant though. I compare it to turbo spool time because you probably won't ever be cruising at 5k or 6k RPM, so it may take a second to get into the meaty portion of the power curve.

edit: removed that portion from my initial post so I don't confuse anyone.

[twag4]

Where is info on innovate making 290-300 whp? I have only seen them making that kind of power on E85. I would be sold if it showed those numbers on 93 octane. Please please show me, I need that whine in my life!