My 86 Experience at Tokyo Dealership. Full TRD trim 86 on display

[Nardi330]

Japanese service is really amazing.

back when i had a JDM Honda Civic Type R (EP3), i visited a Honda dealer at Osaka for some small parts. i personally speak zero Japanese and unfortunately there wasn't any staff that speak much English. a lady invited me to sit down at a desk and offered my a drink. then i said in English i wanted to buy some parts and she introduced a guy from parts and sat down with me. i tried explaining what i want (i searched for pic off the net etc and saved them in my iphone to show them) and we chatted using translation app on the iphone. it took us 2 hours of chatting to finally order 30,000 yen worth of parts and organised postage to my hotel. they never showed any sign of impatient etc and i felt sorry for wasting so much time during the process but they were very accomodating. so wish the dealers in Australia are as good as them.

[bestwheelbase]

Originally Posted by Celicadude

I'm fine driving a stock car for a while, but i'd rather invest my money into performance upgrades, rather than trying to source parts that should have been on the car in the first place.

I hear ya friend. There is a lot to be said for having proper support and focusing on the drive. I hope that, even though Toyota isn't offering it's full lineup of accessories here in the USDM, you will still be able to outfit your car to your liking and enjoy it fully.

[Nardi330]

for those who are looking to visit a dealer in Japan to buy some parts/accessories. make sure u plan to go at the beginning of your trip as many dealers dont stock parts and may take a few days before they are available. they are usually happy to courier the parts to your hotel if you pay for it. you will need to tell the hotel about this in advance and some hotels may charge a small handling fee to collect parcels for guest.

this also applies to car parts shops like Autobacs as well.

[TuxedoCartman]

Originally Posted by Symbiont

That TRD setup is drop-dead gorgeous. I wonder if I can convince it to marry me?

On the one hand, it is already in white. On the other hand though, I saw what she was doing with every potential customer who walked through the door. That's not the car you take home to mom. (Hmm, but on the, uh... third hand?... though, if I could marry that car, I wonder if I get Japanese citizenship?)

Originally Posted by YukiHachiRoku

I got so jealous when you said the 86 had it's own area in the dealership, like it is in a sacred temple shrine!!! I miss Japan so much, and it's culture. I am so sad and disappointed that we Americans get the leftovers, but maybe I should be happy they even let us have this car in the first place. God knows they like to keep "the good stuff" to themselves, export the trash, then laugh at us.

When was the last time you visited an Autobacs motorsport boutique? God I miss those, they are like Toy's R Us only for cars lol... /cry

I know. I keep trying to remind myself that it wasn't that long ago we got stiffed entirely on a lot of cars. The Silvia got neutered and sold as the 240sx for only two generations, the third-gen RX-7 was only on sale for two years, the classic Skyline GT-R's never made it to the states at all (except for shady, questionably-legal import shops who overcharged obscenely on them). Even the non-mega-performance rides like the Daihatsu Copen or Suzuki Cappuccino failed to make it over. So I'm trying to be happy that we are getting the car at all, and in a trim that's relatively decent; I mean, ours is closer to the GT trim level than to the G or RC forms.

Still, I'm fully expecting in the next few years they'll release a D1GP edition, or the Akina Model, or S20M edition... something which will be so incredibly drool-worthy, and fast, that we'll be knocking each other down trying to sell our kidneys to afford it. And that care won't make it to America.

Why, Japan? Why you gotta be like that?

Originally Posted by YukiHachiRoku

I want to marry Kaori!

Hey now, hey now, hey now!!! I posted this thread to let you all know how happy I was, not so you could go stealing my Kaori-chan! Go find your own super-cute, incredibly friendly JDM saleslady! LOL...

Originally Posted by Turbowned

I remember when I first read the announcement that the FT86 would be under the Scion brand, and ************* made this banner:



I KNEW this was going to be a problem when they decided to make it a mono-spec Scion!!! I just want a TOYOTA 86. I want the high spec model with all the toys, and I want to pay FULL PRICE for it! I also want to give Toyota and TRD LOTS OF MONEY for parts and accessories. LOTS of money. Is anyone listening??!!

LOL... I like that banner! Sums up perfectly how I felt, that's for sure.

<sigh> It is frustrating, though, that America seems to continuously get the crap-end of the stick when it comes to import cars. I've got a theory on that, though: in most parts of America, we have to own a car. Public transit doesn't exist for large parts of America, and where it does it's a joke. So if you live someplace like the suburbs of Kansas City or middle of nowhere west-Texas, a car is a necessary part of life.

But in places like Japan, owning a car is nothing more than a luxury. Something like 75% of the country lives in Tokyo, and their trains are so well organized and well run that you can live your whole life here without so much as learning to ride a bicycle just fine. Same goes for some parts of Europe, as well.

They don't have dealerships here with giant lots of cars ready to go the minute you decide on a model, and thus can't prey on the emotions of buyers (something which accounts for like 80% of the American car-buyer's decision making). Therefore, they have to market their products more aggressively, and offer more for the money to make the sale. I mean, look at the ads for ANY of the cars on the Japanese Toyota website; it's never "everyday people doing everyday things". They all speak to luxury, and affluence (and serenity... Japanese people always look like the product has brought them nirvana in their ads, whether it's green tea, makeup, or a car.) To sell a car like the 86 here, they have to give you more options. They have to offer the RC trim for those who are just going to go racing; the G for those who want a stereo but are poor; the GT-Limited for those who can't easily justify the cost of owning a somewhat impractical car in Tokyo, and are concerned more with image and comfort than performance. Because at any point in the buying process, you can come to your senses and say, "Wait a minute... I'm not happy with this. I'll take the train to work till the S-16 Silvia comes along." No car in front of you to entice you with immediate gratification, so why not?

The paradox is because America is such a car-dependent country, we get less selection and less shiny vehicles. Stupid American dealership models, and their stupid emotional selling practices, and stupid international business practices, with its stupid international economics and marketing...

That's just what I think. Thoughts?

[TuxedoCartman]

Originally Posted by Nardi330

Japanese service is really amazing.

back when i had a JDM Honda Civic Type R (EP3), i visited a Honda dealer at Osaka for some small parts. i personally speak zero Japanese and unfortunately there wasn't any staff that speak much English. a lady invited me to sit down at a desk and offered my a drink. then i said in English i wanted to buy some parts and she introduced a guy from parts and sat down with me. i tried explaining what i want (i searched for pic off the net etc and saved them in my iphone to show them) and we chatted using translation app on the iphone. it took us 2 hours of chatting to finally order 30,000 yen worth of parts and organised postage to my hotel. they never showed any sign of impatient etc and i felt sorry for wasting so much time during the process but they were very accomodating. so wish the dealers in Australia are as good as them.

LOL... your post reminds me of the local Honda motorcycle shop. I needed some wheels for while I was here (once a gear-head, always a gear-head), so I got a little 400cc motorcycle. The few times I took it in for service, there was nobody at the shop who spoke English, and my Japanese was even worse at that time. But the lady who met with customers had no problem pointing and pantomiming, and I had no problem doing the same. So for people watching the two of us the time I was trying to explain what services I needed done (oil change, chain-lube, tire air-pressure, etc...), as well as trying to ask if they would wash the bike or not... they must have thought the circus had come to town! LOL...

God I'm going to miss this country. My FR-S is going to be working double-time to try and console me.

[bestwheelbase]

Originally Posted by TuxedoCartman

That's just what I think. Thoughts?

I think you hit the nail on the head.

[Lonewolf]

Originally Posted by TOMIMOTO

Nice, nice.

A little off topic. I'm planning on taking a trip to Tokyo in the near future. I know learning English is a big part of Japanese schooling, so can you get around ok with 2nd grade Japanese?

I'm going to be hitting Rosetta Stone hard, but it would be nice to not have to worry too much about it.

Japan is a very accommodating place for foreigners, especially in Tokyo. Many signs are in both Japanese and English, and a surprising number of people know at least a little English. As you move into more remote parts of Japan it's harder to find signs in English. My Japanese is probably at the level of a fifth grader now (sad, since it was my first language), and I got aroung just fine the last time I was there.

[Draco-REX]

Originally Posted by TuxedoCartman

That's just what I think. Thoughts?

That's a factor, true. But also keep in mind that the US is a GIGANTIC market that doe NOT pay a lot for cars. Releasing a car here has a potential to backfire in a big way. Because of the instant-gratification nature of dealerships, a car manufacturer has to put a car on almost every lot, sometimes several.

And they have to do that while selling the car for some of the lowest prices in the world. For instance, our BRZ Limited which is equipped nearly the same as the top model Type-S in Japan (2.7M Yen) is priced at only 2.2M Yen. That's somewhere between the stripper RA (2.4M) and R(2.0M) models.

So bringing a specialty model that may not sell and may not make much money isn't financially feasible.

Now that's not to say there aren't solutions that they are overlooking.

Enthusiasts will pay a premium for specialty PARTS. It's tough to sell a high end car at a $5K premium when it's just a couple aero pieces, springs, and stickers. But enthusiasts will drop that or more to add on later. So they could import conversion kits at a financially secure price, and offer them per-order.

I think there would be enough of a market to justify being able to walk into a Toyota dealership and buying a complete "TRD Performance" or "GT-Apex" kit that has everything needed to turn a FR-S into the equivalent specialty model from Japan. And even some dealerships would install the kits in-house if they think they can sell the car at a profitable premium.

But ultimately, we're too big for our own good when it comes to cool stuff.

[TuxedoCartman]

Originally Posted by Draco-REX

That's a factor, true. But also keep in mind that the US is a GIGANTIC market that doe NOT pay a lot for cars. Releasing a car here has a potential to backfire in a big way. Because of the instant-gratification nature of dealerships, a car manufacturer has to put a car on almost every lot, sometimes several.

And they have to do that while selling the car for some of the lowest prices in the world. For instance, our BRZ Limited which is equipped nearly the same as the top model Type-S in Japan (2.7M Yen) is priced at only 2.2M Yen. That's somewhere between the stripper RA (2.4M) and R(2.0M) models.

So bringing a specialty model that may not sell and may not make much money isn't financially feasible.

Now that's not to say there aren't solutions that they are overlooking.

Enthusiasts will pay a premium for specialty PARTS. It's tough to sell a high end car at a $5K premium when it's just a couple aero pieces, springs, and stickers. But enthusiasts will drop that or more to add on later. So they could import conversion kits at a financially secure price, and offer them per-order.

I think there would be enough of a market to justify being able to walk into a Toyota dealership and buying a complete "TRD Performance" or "GT-Apex" kit that has everything needed to turn a FR-S into the equivalent specialty model from Japan. And even some dealerships would install the kits in-house if they think they can sell the car at a profitable premium.

But ultimately, we're too big for our own good when it comes to cool stuff.

Mm... good points.

I think major car manufacturers are, or have been, hesitant to go full bore (no pun intended) with offering after-purchase modifications is to avoid dealing with the legal issues that could arise as a result. Not just from lawsuits of people who may run themselves off the road after installing factory-offered lowering kits or superchargers, but also from the government. I'm about as far from being the "eek, big brother's watching you! ...freeeeeedom!!!" type as you can get, but it's not outside the realm of possibility to imagine the NHTSA accusing major manufacturers of using after-sales parts to skirt federally required vehicle safety and emissions tests, should they start moving such products in large enough volume to attract attention (or one pretty blonde gets in an accident with such a car). Kudos to TRD and Nismo in particular for offering what they have so far in such an environment, but you'll notice their products are still on the milder side of mild.

I'm sure the insane diversity of America and American car culture can't make it easy for the marketing heads here to figure out what exactly they should be exporting either.

[tripjammer]

Originally Posted by Celicadude

Dear Toyota NA/ Scion.
How do I put this. I WANT THIS CAR exactly how it is in this photo. I am willing to pay you money to have this car. Its a real easy equation, I pay you money, you make profit, I get the car I want. It really pisses me off seeing the rest of the world getting MORE options for this car, than the supposed "totally customizable" Scion version. This is why Scion does not sell well in this country, because for some reason Toyota NA thinks the American market is only interested in Pep Boys shift knobs and carbon fiber appliques. Sorry for the rant, but I needed to get that off my chest. I have been waiting for this car since they discontinued the Celica back in 2005. Then I get all hyped up for the TRD version, and all these options, that I will probably never see. So listen up Scion/Toyota NA. It's cool to have a mono-spec mantra and all, but how about giving your consumer the option to buy "OPTIONS". And by options I'm not talking about pioneer head units, shift knobs, etc, I can buy that on my own from Pep Boys (not a fan of them either by the way). I want what everyone else around the world appears to be getting. If a customer want no options, that's fine. But what about the rest of us who would actually like all, if not most, of the factory options offered to us. I mean look at MINI. They have the same one spec mantra and EVERYTHING they offer is an option. The damn things can get well into the 40k range. And I am 100% sure they don't have trouble selling cars (and they're rated dead last in reliability by the way). So in closing...
Offer me this car and you have my business.

Sincerely,
A loyal Toyota Owner

I agree with you 1000 percent! Damn you Scion!

[RRnold]

How awesome is that! Thanks for sharing! :happy0180:

[bestwheelbase]

Originally Posted by TuxedoCartman

I think major car manufacturers are, or have been, hesitant to go full bore (no pun intended) with offering after-purchase modifications is to avoid dealing with the legal issues that could arise as a result.

Certainly this is one piece of the bigger picture, but let's remember -- If they saw enough dollar signs in it, they'd make it happen. We hardcore enthusiasts are a lively bunch but we're still a very small niche market when compared to the entire American driving populous.

Imagine the outcry if people saw a $36k full-tilt FRS at their local dealership.

I wish it wasn't this way, but I understand why it is.

[Celicadude]

Originally Posted by TuxedoCartman

On the one hand, it is already in white. On the other hand though, I saw what she was doing with every potential customer who walked through the door. That's not the car you take home to mom. (Hmm, but on the, uh... third hand?... though, if I could marry that car, I wonder if I get Japanese citizenship?)


I know. I keep trying to remind myself that it wasn't that long ago we got stiffed entirely on a lot of cars. The Silvia got neutered and sold as the 240sx for only two generations, the third-gen RX-7 was only on sale for two years, the classic Skyline GT-R's never made it to the states at all (except for shady, questionably-legal import shops who overcharged obscenely on them). Even the non-mega-performance rides like the Daihatsu Copen or Suzuki Cappuccino failed to make it over. So I'm trying to be happy that we are getting the car at all, and in a trim that's relatively decent; I mean, ours is closer to the GT trim level than to the G or RC forms.

Still, I'm fully expecting in the next few years they'll release a D1GP edition, or the Akina Model, or S20M edition... something which will be so incredibly drool-worthy, and fast, that we'll be knocking each other down trying to sell our kidneys to afford it. And that care won't make it to America.

Why, Japan? Why you gotta be like that?



Hey now, hey now, hey now!!! I posted this thread to let you all know how happy I was, not so you could go stealing my Kaori-chan! Go find your own super-cute, incredibly friendly JDM saleslady! LOL...



LOL... I like that banner! Sums up perfectly how I felt, that's for sure.

<sigh> It is frustrating, though, that America seems to continuously get the crap-end of the stick when it comes to import cars. I've got a theory on that, though: in most parts of America, we have to own a car. Public transit doesn't exist for large parts of America, and where it does it's a joke. So if you live someplace like the suburbs of Kansas City or middle of nowhere west-Texas, a car is a necessary part of life.

But in places like Japan, owning a car is nothing more than a luxury. Something like 75% of the country lives in Tokyo, and their trains are so well organized and well run that you can live your whole life here without so much as learning to ride a bicycle just fine. Same goes for some parts of Europe, as well.

They don't have dealerships here with giant lots of cars ready to go the minute you decide on a model, and thus can't prey on the emotions of buyers (something which accounts for like 80% of the American car-buyer's decision making). Therefore, they have to market their products more aggressively, and offer more for the money to make the sale. I mean, look at the ads for ANY of the cars on the Japanese Toyota website; it's never "everyday people doing everyday things". They all speak to luxury, and affluence (and serenity... Japanese people always look like the product has brought them nirvana in their ads, whether it's green tea, makeup, or a car.) To sell a car like the 86 here, they have to give you more options. They have to offer the RC trim for those who are just going to go racing; the G for those who want a stereo but are poor; the GT-Limited for those who can't easily justify the cost of owning a somewhat impractical car in Tokyo, and are concerned more with image and comfort than performance. Because at any point in the buying process, you can come to your senses and say, "Wait a minute... I'm not happy with this. I'll take the train to work till the S-16 Silvia comes along." No car in front of you to entice you with immediate gratification, so why not?

The paradox is because America is such a car-dependent country, we get less selection and less shiny vehicles. Stupid American dealership models, and their stupid emotional selling practices, and stupid international business practices, with its stupid international economics and marketing...

That's just what I think. Thoughts?

I think you're on to something with your theory. I definitely think the manufacturers are thinking the way you described above. I know vw/audi loves to to not bring us the good stuff for the sake of it not making a "business case" for the US market simply because they think most Americans only care about function over luxury (OMG so you're saying this Odyssey has 20 cup holders... where do I sign). My beef with Scion and Toyota is that back when Scion was first made, the target customer was touted as young and their business model were cars you can make your own (ie: customize to your liking from the factory, or so I thought). Now mind you, most young people can't afford a new car, and I for one bought my first car used, so who is their real customer... older people with decent incomes. Now as I mentioned before, MINI has had nothing but success with their custom order business model. In fact I am willing to bet MINI would have been shut down for their poor quality a long time ago if it wasn't for the fact their every MINI sold is made individually for the consumer. In fact, it's the cars on their lots they have trouble selling. Now I'm not saying SCION needs to offer millions of combinations of options to be successful, but I mean c'mon they offer nothing unique, in any way, that I can't do on my own for way cheaper. And I guess thats the point I'm trying to make, how is SCION any different than any other manufacturer aside from the fact that they don't offer decent upgrades whatsoever. If anything they are downgrade from a standard Toyota because they offer less options. Now I like to think of Americans as being a very car oriented culture. This is coming from a guy who lived in NYC his whole life and got his first drivers license when his was 23 because the public transportation actually works there and it's more of a pain in the ass to have a car. Now I don't know about you guys but I use to day dream about taking my car (that I didn't own by the way) for a road trip, not because of the destinations but just for the drive. I mean look at the mustang camaro and challenger guys. Hell even the MINI folks are driving fanatics (MINI Takes the States). Someone once said the car in America represents freedom (insert smart sounding name here), and thats probably the major reason public transportation in most places doesn't work. I for one love driving (when I'm not stuck in perpetual DC/MD/VA traffic) and am very particular about the car I drive. I just think it's a poor business decision to write us Americans off, just because they think most of us are 9-5 zombies who only care about driving to and from work. I mean seriously, I don't think any other country is more obsessed about cars than us. If Toyota truly wants to turn SCION around they need to get over this we're young and hip and into Fast and Furious lets meet up at the McDonalds at midnight thing, and should maybe look into making SCION their performance arm (keep toyota the family friendly brand, and Lexus as the luxury brand).

[mattles]

Originally Posted by Bristecom

Dear Celicadude, it's Scion. We don't give a damn. We believe in the communist model of minimal options. We want to be known as a cheap brand for mostly dumb children. Offering popular and useful options instead of stupid underglow and ridiculous body kits would only confuse our mentally challenged American customers. Also, as a rule of thumb we try to do what we can to minimize sales and profits. We have implemented mono-price and mono-spec to try and make sure that our cars are not customized to fit your wants and needs and we work hard with dealers to ensure the prices are always high and non-negotiable. So in closing, we don't care for your business, it's our way or the highway. K thx bye.

Fuk'n sig'd. Scion will forever in my brain be known as 'The Communist Model of Car Sales.'