Rear camber assymmetry and alignment issues

[ofuts]

Hi everyone,
I am having some issues i can not solve till now, would appriciate some help and suggestions.
I am lowered about 1,5 inch with HKS Hipermax 4 GT coilovers, 18*9,5 +45 Kojins and 255/35/18 Yokohama Neovas at all corners.

My alignment values are like this:
Toe: L R
F 0,00 -0,1 (-0,1)
R 0,05 0,05 (0,1)
Camber:
F -1,6 -1,7
R -1,6 -2,6
Caster: 6,3 -5,1
Thrust angle: -0,0

As you can see my problem is the assymmetric rear camber, does anyone have an idea why that happened?
I will get LCAs to fix it but i just want to know how it is possible. Worried about if i got a crashed car.

My other issue is, my alignment is off every time i check it (every month, this is the third time), and i havent been to track or havent driven in really bad roads. Front right cambers were -1,6/-1,6, rear cambers were -1,5/-2,5, front toes were -0,05, rear toes were 0,1. Car had alwayes been pulling to right after i got the coilovers, it is even worse now.

Do you think that caster difference is a big problem? Is there a way to fix it? And do you think it is the reason that car is always pulling to right or getting alignment off?

Thanks in advance

[wparsons]

Caster alone will not make the car pull in a straight line.

Seeing cross camber out like that isn't uncommon, definitely isn't proof the car was crashed.

Was the alignment done with you sitting in the car? How close is the ride height on both sides (front right compared to front left, and rear right compared to rear left)? If the left rear is sitting higher, it will definitely have less camber.

[cjd]

I recall reading somewhere or other that the rear subframe can sometimes be secured off-center enough to cause something like this (certainly, Whiteline likes to point out that their insert setup can help.)

[finch1750]

Mine was pretty far off after lowering as well. I think I was -1.4 L / -2.2 R. This was also after I had White line rear subframe bushings installed. I have seen a few others post with rear camber off that much as well

[bfrank1972]

Very common, not a big deal, LCA's will fix your problem

[YouShallKnow]

Just got mine aligned today at West End and my rear was similar.

I have about a 1.5" drop with B6's and Swift Sport FR-S springs, my rear camber was like -2.2 and -2.7.

And I got my FR-S new.

[08stiguy]

Pm'd you

[ofuts]

Originally Posted by wparsons

Caster alone will not make the car pull in a straight line.

Seeing cross camber out like that isn't uncommon, definitely isn't proof the car was crashed.

Was the alignment done with you sitting in the car? How close is the ride height on both sides (front right compared to front left, and rear right compared to rear left)? If the left rear is sitting higher, it will definitely have less camber.

I was not sitting in the car when alignment was made. Yes, left rear is about 8mm higher than right, so probably thats the reason, but still surprised 8mm can effect 1 degree. Ahh, shouldnt have belived the techs words Thanks for the reminder.
Anyway, do you think this might be the reason car is pulling to right? or alignment being off frequently?

[Thorpedo]

Rear subframe needs to be shifted if you want to even it out. Lots of threads on this. 8mm will not make that much of a difference. Common issue.

[celica73]

Originally Posted by Thorpedo

Rear subframe needs to be shifted if you want to even it out. Lots of threads on this. 8mm will not make that much of a difference. Common issue.

Still not buying that argument. Shifting the rear subframe should* do very little to effect camber. ALL the suspension arms are connected to the subframe, shifting it left will just change the relationship to the body, no suspension arms will change relative to each other. The only reason I see to move the rear subframe is if the front and rear are not lined up to each other.

*shifting the subframe will slightly alter the angle of the rear shocks, thus changing the motion ratios slightly. I have not done the math, so can't comment on how much the change is, but it isn't likely to be significant enough to raise or lower the car, and with no change in ride height there is no change in camber.

[Thorpedo]

Originally Posted by celica73

Still not buying that argument. Shifting the rear subframe should* do very little to effect camber. ALL the suspension arms are connected to the subframe, shifting it left will just change the relationship to the body, no suspension arms will change relative to each other. The only reason I see to move the rear subframe is if the front and rear are not lined up to each other.

*shifting the subframe will slightly alter the angle of the rear shocks, thus changing the motion ratios slightly. I have not done the math, so can't comment on how much the change is, but it isn't likely to be significant enough to raise or lower the car, and with no change in ride height there is no change in camber.

Heh, you're absolutely right. I bought into the bad info listed in the other threads and didn't think critically about it! Thanks for bringing that up.

Oddly enough I just removed the entire rear suspension last night. I did notice that a lot of the bolt holes in the subframe/bushings are large enough that there is a fair amount of "play" when the bolts are loose. Say if the upper control arm had inward force on it when it was tightened and the lower had outward force I could see it making a fair amount of difference in camber. Does this make sense?

[wparsons]

Shifting the subframe can change toe readings since the toe is measured relative to the body, not the subframe, and also the thrust angle at the rear, but not camber.

You might get some camber change by applying inward or outward force when torquing the pivot bolts, how much I'm not sure.

Originally Posted by ofuts

I was not sitting in the car when alignment was made. Yes, left rear is about 8mm higher than right, so probably thats the reason, but still surprised 8mm can effect 1 degree. Ahh, shouldnt have belived the techs words Thanks for the reminder.
Anyway, do you think this might be the reason car is pulling to right? or alignment being off frequently?

Get it aligned with you in the drivers seat, I bet that 8mm difference is almost gone with your weight in it.

My car lowered 1" (swift sport springs) has -2.1* in the rear (cross camber is dead on with me in the car), no clue what it was at before installing the springs. I doubt you're getting 1* from 8mm difference in height though.

[DavidBob]

Quick question, I just bought LCA's because my rear camber isn't even. I read somewhere on the forum before that I will have to get adjustable toe arms too is that true? Will I need them to zero out my toe? (its zero'd out now just on coilovers) Anything info would help, thanks!
-Dave

[finch1750]

Originally Posted by DavidBob

Quick question, I just bought LCA's because my rear camber isn't even. I read somewhere on the forum before that I will have to get adjustable toe arms too is that true? Will I need them to zero out my toe? (its zero'd out now just on coilovers) Anything info would help, thanks!
-Dave

It depends how much toe gets added based on your camber (and ride height maybe?). I'm at around -2 all around lowered 1" and the stock toe arms provided enough adjustment.