New 510 concept (Nissan IDx)

[DSR2409]

Originally Posted by daiheadjai

The Twins got manufacturers to realize there was demand for these cars. But then I think the decreasing sales made them think that the market was already saturated.. I thought the IDx and Kia's GT4 stinger are probably going to end up vaporware... Unless if they are planning to Ford GT us with a surprise reveal...

That would suck. Two of my favorite concepts in recent years.

Twins could be seeing decreasing sales also because they're refusing to update/upgrade the cars or add more variants.

[Lonewolf]

Annnndddddddddddd........this car had a thread already

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Sideways&Smiling

Manufacturers suck. Nissan fans have been clamoring for a Silvia S16 for ages. People also want successors to the RX7 and S2000. The manufacturers are just afraid of making these cars, because they are afraid of losing money.

The FR-S/BRZ/GT86 is succeeding by being inexpensively made out of the existing Impreza platform and, honestly, probably being given a sticker price $5k above what it really should be, considering the power, features, etc., because there is nothing else out there similar to it at the moment, which lets them get away with it...

Ya manufacturers suck for wanting to stay in business and not cater to a percentage of buyers about 6 decimal points on the wrong side of zero.
Impreza Platform????
You sir are so far out to lunch you are at breakfast!

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Ya manufacturers suck for wanting to stay in business and not cater to a percentage of buyers about 6 decimal points on the wrong side of zero.
Impreza Platform????
You sir are so far out to lunch you are at breakfast!

Sorry Canuck-noob. Mildly modified Impreza platform it is.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Dimman

Sorry Canuck-noob. Mildly modified Impreza platform it is.

What because it shares a couple of suspension components it is the same platform?
Based on and "made out of" are not the same thing.

[nunonuna]

I don't know maybe its only me, but idx just looks like Dodge Challenger in smaller size.

[DarkSunrise]

The two small RWD coupes I was hoping to see are the Chevy 130R and Kia Stinger GT4:





That said, they'd only really interest me if they could match the driving dynamics of the FR-S/BRZ, while improving on it (refinement or power). Otherwise there's not really any reason to change.

[Sideways&Smiling]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

What because it shares a couple of suspension components it is the same platform?
Based on and "made out of" are not the same thing.

Close enough to the same thing. You know the prototypes and test mules for your car were literally RWD-converted Legacies and Imprezas, right? The whole concept was highly influenced by RWD-converted Imprezas that were being used for drifting in D1. The FR-S/GT86/BRZ is NOT built from the ground up to be the best that it can be in every way without compromises. It was built to make a fun, good looking driftable RWD car that they could use an existing Subaru chassis and its components to make a relatively inexpensive to build (compared to designing & building a new sports car from the ground up) sports car. This is why Subaru was initially against the idea altogether. Subaru is conservative when it comes to looks and very much believes in AWD and turbos. They didn't think anyone would pay the same amount of money as a WRX for a RWD car with an NA engine, whereas Toyota was banking on the fact that if they could make a simple, but cool looking, RWD car the aftermarket would blow it up into a popular tuner car, just like the Silvia before it. Reusing suspension, brakes, etc. is not a coincidence.

It's rather smart, really. It would be nice to see other companies do something similar if they need to save on costs to convince the bean counters new small, light RWD vehicles are worth building. The reason we haven't seen anything from Nissan yet is because they DON'T have a small, light chassis to work with at the moment.

[DarkSunrise]

They may have started off a shortened Impreza chassis, but now it's been modified so much that you couldn't even retrofit AWD if you wanted because of the significantly changed engine placement (5" lower and 8" rearward). Impreza coilovers aren't compatible with the BRZ because of physical changes to the suspension. Suspension geometry and roll centers are different, spring rates different, the weight is much lighter, CG is lower and rearward, engine mounts are different, car sits much lower, seating positions are different, etc.

It was a significant re-design of the Impreza chassis, to the point where 91% of the parts on the GT86/BRZ/FR-S are not shared with the Impreza or any other platform.

Let's not pretend they took an Impreza chassis, converted it to RWD and called it a day.

[tahdizzle]

Originally Posted by Sideways&Smiling

Close enough to the same thing. You know the prototypes and test mules for your car were literally RWD-converted Legacies and Imprezas, right? The whole concept was highly influenced by RWD-converted Imprezas that were being used for drifting in D1. The FR-S/GT86/BRZ is NOT built from the ground up to be the best that it can be in every way without compromises. It was built to make a fun, good looking driftable RWD car that they could use an existing Subaru chassis and its components to make a relatively inexpensive to build (compared to designing & building a new sports car from the ground up) sports car. This is why Subaru was initially against the idea altogether. Subaru is conservative when it comes to looks and very much believes in AWD and turbos. They didn't think anyone would pay the same amount of money as a WRX for a RWD car with an NA engine, whereas Toyota was banking on the fact that if they could make a simple, but cool looking, RWD car the aftermarket would blow it up into a popular tuner car, just like the Silvia before it. Reusing suspension, brakes, etc. is not a coincidence.

It's rather smart, really. It would be nice to see other companies do something similar if they need to save on costs to convince the bean counters new small, light RWD vehicles are worth building. The reason we haven't seen anything from Nissan yet is because they DON'T have a small, light chassis to work with at the moment.

Use the Cube chasis!

As far as the entire chasis debate.

It may have been based on a legacy/impreza chasis, however; just looking at the difference between the 15 WRX and the 15 STi in ground clearance and COG is enough to say they are a different chasis.

and when comparing the BRZ and WRX chasis, there are more differences yet.

[DSR2409]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

The two small RWD coupes I was hoping to see are the Chevy 130R and Kia Stinger GT4:





That said, they'd only really interest me if they could match the driving dynamics of the FR-S/BRZ, while improving on it (refinement or power). Otherwise there's not really any reason to change.

The stinger is beautiful! The Chevy not so much.

[tahdizzle]

Is it just me, or are industrial/technical designers getting paid WAAAAAAYYYY too much for what they do?

They come out with one design, and that design is applied to an entire line up.
Same shoe different sizes.

What appeals mostly to me about the Kia, is that it is a unique design. Granted its a concept and IF* it made production probably wouldn't look the same.
BUT, the chevy concept already looks like everything chevy produces. Even in a concept, that person has no imagination.

[Dave-ROR]

The chevy looks good in person. The IDX looks hideous in pics and in person.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Sideways&Smiling

Close enough to the same thing. You know the prototypes and test mules for your car were literally RWD-converted Legacies and Imprezas, right? The whole concept was highly influenced by RWD-converted Imprezas that were being used for drifting in D1. The FR-S/GT86/BRZ is NOT built from the ground up to be the best that it can be in every way without compromises. It was built to make a fun, good looking driftable RWD car that they could use an existing Subaru chassis and its components to make a relatively inexpensive to build (compared to designing & building a new sports car from the ground up) sports car. This is why Subaru was initially against the idea altogether. Subaru is conservative when it comes to looks and very much believes in AWD and turbos. They didn't think anyone would pay the same amount of money as a WRX for a RWD car with an NA engine, whereas Toyota was banking on the fact that if they could make a simple, but cool looking, RWD car the aftermarket would blow it up into a popular tuner car, just like the Silvia before it. Reusing suspension, brakes, etc. is not a coincidence.

It's rather smart, really. It would be nice to see other companies do something similar if they need to save on costs to convince the bean counters new small, light RWD vehicles are worth building. The reason we haven't seen anything from Nissan yet is because they DON'T have a small, light chassis to work with at the moment.

Thank you sir that is much more readable and makes much more sense then before!
Now I can agree and retract my prior statements.