The mechanical advantage a manual has over an automatic

[Poodles]

Originally Posted by AJPG

Please sir enlighten us...

Already tried once. OP is basing this all off sport mode which locks the torque converter up and he's driving it outside of the power band.

Torque converters are torque multipliers and will supply a far more powerful mechanical advantage than a clutch. This also is why efficiency goes down for autos, which was overcome with locking the torque converter much like a clutch.

Also, if you can't launch an auto, you're doing it wrong.

Also, BS on feeling bad for manual owners since we're still more efficient. The EPA stats for manuals always make me laugh cause they must be reached by some moron that doesn't know how to drive stick.

[kidgogeta]

manual doesn't mean jack when you can't drive for shit, i've annihilated a manual frs with my auto frs with 2 passengers in my car. Granted the kid was granny shifting not doubling clutching like he should have.

[Koa]

Originally Posted by kidgogeta

manual doesn't mean jack when you can't drive for shit, i've annihilated a manual frs with my auto frs with 2 passengers in my car. Granted the kid was granny shifting not doubling clutching like he should have.

yea those double clutches really help you in a drag, did he heel toe while slowing down at least?

REDACTED AGGRO COMMENT BECAUSE FAILED TO CATCH SARCASM

[tahdizzle]

@Koa, I think he had the sarcasm button on.

[boredom.is.me]

Originally Posted by kidgogeta

manual doesn't mean jack when you can't drive for shit, i've annihilated a manual frs with my auto frs with 2 passengers in my car. Granted the kid was granny shifting not doubling clutching like he should have.

Originally Posted by Koa

yea those double clutches really help you in a drag, did he heel toe while slowing down at least?

do us a favor and stop trying to describe methods of shifting for racing on the streets... oh and stop racing on the streets

Originally Posted by tahdizzle

@Koa, I think he had the sarcasm button on.

He did. That was a the Fast and the Furious line...

You almost had me? You never had me - you never had your car... Granny shiftin' not double clutchin' like you should. You're lucky that hundred shot of NOS didn't blow the welds on the intake! You almost had me?

[Koa]

Originally Posted by boredom.is.me

He did. That was a the Fast and the Furious line...

You almost had me? You never had me - you never had your car... Granny shiftin' not double clutchin' like you should. You're lucky that hundred shot of NOS didn't blow the welds on the intake! You almost had me?

I hate my life sometimes. Redacted. lol

[Marx]

Originally Posted by boredom.is.me

You almost had me? You never had me - you never had your car... Granny shiftin' not double clutchin' like you should. You're lucky that hundred shot of NOS didn't blow the welds on the intake! You almost had me?

[boredom.is.me]

[Dimman]

There is some basis on science with what he's saying. It comes from calculation of wheel thrust which is based on delivered torque to the wheels. But it can be more complicated than moar=better. You need to look at your torque and power curves, traction and rpm drop between shifts.

If I'm not too lazy I'll throw some numbers up later.

[AJPG]

Originally Posted by Poodles

Already tried once. OP is basing this all off sport mode which locks the torque converter up and he's driving it outside of the power band.

Torque converters are torque multipliers and will supply a far more powerful mechanical advantage than a clutch. This also is why efficiency goes down for autos, which was overcome with locking the torque converter much like a clutch.

Also, if you can't launch an auto, you're doing it wrong.

Also, BS on feeling bad for manual owners since we're still more efficient. The EPA stats for manuals always make me laugh cause they must be reached by some moron that doesn't know how to drive stick.

Ok,

But they are torque multipliers ONLY when the engine speed >> trany speed (at launch) after that it lock up and works like... "MT" (It pass all the power to the trany).
And what is that about driving outside of the power band? That should be 4k rpms on stoke car? Lol

If you can't launch a AT car you shouldn't drive!!!
And I feel happy for MT and AT owners, more aftermarket, spare parts, R&D

About efficiency, I DD with Sunoco (it is bad for the crickets).

[zooki]

Remember too that even with the converter locked up its still having to drive a pump, and the power is still routed through sun gears, which have more friction than the manual's gears. Plus I would guess that all the parts that have to be accelerated in an automatic add up to more than the equivalent parts in the manual. But that's just a guess.

[Poodles]

Originally Posted by AJPG

Ok,

But they are torque multipliers ONLY when the engine speed >> trany speed (at launch) after that it lock up and works like... "MT" (It pass all the power to the trany).
And what is that about driving outside of the power band? That should be 4k rpms on stoke car? Lol

If you can't launch a AT car you shouldn't drive!!!
And I feel happy for MT and AT owners, more aftermarket, spare parts, R&D

About efficiency, I DD with Sunoco (it is bad for the crickets).

Unless the TC is locked up, it's going to slip a bit all the time. If load increases, it slips more and then starts multiplying torque to allow it to climb a hill. Of course, if you're in sport mode and forcing it to lock up, you can lug the engine and almost stall it...

Originally Posted by zooki

Remember too that even with the converter locked up its still having to drive a pump, and the power is still routed through sun gears, which have more friction than the manual's gears. Plus I would guess that all the parts that have to be accelerated in an automatic add up to more than the equivalent parts in the manual. But that's just a guess.

Yep, in theory a manual should always get better mileage if the gear ratios are the same. They're not though The auto is a double overdrive transmission while the manual is a single overdrive, leading to a lower cruising RPM.