Full throttle Electric Supercharger Build Thread

[brzaapi]

Originally Posted by fenton

The motor and controller are not meant for constant boost....you need complex boost control tables to make this work in open loop. Think of all the wastegate tables in a modern turbo car.

None the less I hope shiv figures it out....would be a great option for those looking for a bit more control.

True, although I doubt I would drain the batteries too much during AX. But I did finish my install today. Car runs great (91oct) and there is definite improvement. I cant wait too fill up with E85 and really see the potential. The power delivery is great and subtle, not enough to upset the car. I set my switch for about 77% to 80% throttle. There are no worries that it would engage the ESC mid turn during AX. So the power would only come on during a straight away.


IN short I am quite happy. The easy of install and the cost factor for this kit are great. Sure beats the 10K+ turbo kit I put on my previous BRZ, as far as smiles per dollar go.


I have been reading this thread for about a year now. Thank you to everyone who has posted anything helpful. And a big thank you to Rob and Shiv for all your help.

[jwvand02]

A quick update - I was one of the people having a lot of issues starting the car when it started to get cold.

Adding about 1.5 gals per tank of 92 and topping off with e85 did indeed help get the car started with one, maybe two cranks.

However, sometimes the battery would STILL be dead so it wouldn't matter. I came back to this thread hoping to share with everyone my discovery of the odyssey P680, but since the last time I checked in that's already been posted as an upgrade that Rob is including.

Let me say this - my starter battery was probably a particularly bad case, but the P680 is still a world of difference. Amazon has them for just under $100 shipped, and it's made a huge difference in how easily my car starts up.

[jflogerzi]

Originally Posted by brzaapi

True, although I doubt I would drain the batteries too much during AX. But I did finish my install today. Car runs great (91oct) and there is definite improvement. I cant wait too fill up with E85 and really see the potential. The power delivery is great and subtle, not enough to upset the car. I set my switch for about 77% to 80% throttle. There are no worries that it would engage the ESC mid turn during AX. So the power would only come on during a straight away.


IN short I am quite happy. The easy of install and the cost factor for this kit are great. Sure beats the 10K+ turbo kit I put on my previous BRZ, as far as smiles per dollar go.


I have been reading this thread for about a year now. Thank you to everyone who has posted anything helpful. And a big thank you to Rob and Shiv for all your help.

Hey can you elaborate more on this Sure beats the 10K+ turbo kit I put on my previous BRZ, as far as smiles per dollar go.

Just really would like to hear from someone who had both. Also have you tested your kit with E85 at all?

[raven1231]

Originally Posted by jflogerzi

Hey can you elaborate more on this Sure beats the 10K+ turbo kit I put on my previous BRZ, as far as smiles per dollar go.

Just really would like to hear from someone who had both. Also have you tested your kit with E85 at all?

Which kit the esc? He states he hasn't. As for the turbo comparison he says the esc is better when cost is factored in. Pretty straight forward.

[jflogerzi]

Originally Posted by raven1231

Which kit the esc? He states he hasn't. As for the turbo comparison he says the esc is better when cost is factored in. Pretty straight forward.

If you read his post he had a Turbo kit on his old BRZ and now has a new twin with the ESC Kit. At least that's how I read it.

[brzaapi]

Originally Posted by jflogerzi

If you read his post he had a Turbo kit on his old BRZ and now has a new twin with the ESC Kit. At least that's how I read it.

Yes, I have had two BRZs. My first BRZ had a Full Blown Premium Stage 1 kit with FX400 clutch. I was running 225s on the front and 255s on the back.
I had two tunes, one for 91oct (Oklahoma gas is damn crappy, I have had a number of out of state tuners complain about it) and another for E85 (our E85 is solid though). My 91 tune ran about 7 PSI. It was my safe tune to run any kind of fuel I had too. My E85 tune ran about 15PSI.


My BRZ FBM Turbo build thread is listed under the "Full Blown owners" thread. I don't know if its a fun read but I tried to be informative and helpful. But please know what is said in that review and what I am about to say is very subjective. As most things "cars", usually are.


I would safely say that the performance/acceleration I get from the ESC/91 is in the same ballpark as the FBM turbo/91. At the upper revs 6300+rpms I would say the turbo kit will have a touch more pull. Not a lot. However, in a straight line up to 100mph I believe it would be considered a wash of which one is faster. The GTX28R turbo I had installed, had minimal lag...but you still have to wait for the exhaust to spool the turbo. The ESC doesn't have that problem. But you do still have to floor it, and wait for just a split second for the magic to happen. So the 7 PSI on the turbo kit(some people run 8 to 10PSi on pump gas, obviously they will make more power) ultimately makes more power than the ESC....but the ESC doesn't have quite as long of a wait while building the power. Now I would imagine that the ESC/E85 will be every bit as good (maybe a touch faster) than my Turbo kit with 91/7psi. That's how I view this. I mean power delivery is something that is very hard to explain on a forum. A dyno graph somewhat helps, but real world experience is the only way to really know. Everything else is just numbers and theory.


There really is no reason to compare the ESC kit to a Turbokit running E85/15psi, and making 407whp. Honestly that kind of power on 255s was just nuts. Both tunes on the turbo kit didn't really deliver there full power till above 6000rpms. The E85 was more driveable in the lower rpms, cause it made power down low. But I found myself short shifting right at 6000rpms (300 - 320whp) because even in 4th gear going around 100mph. When the 400 horses started to hit my wheels, they would spin. And spin bad...the surge of power would come out of nowhere. In short it was dangerous to the uninitiated. Both fun and fracking terrifying at the same time. Unless your drag racing , that kind of power is wasted on a street or AX car. You would have to throw a ton of rubber at the car. And to do it correctly would require other supporting mods and the price would add up greatly. Not really a good route for DD/weekend AX toy.


The FBM turbo/91 tune was very driveable. It is probably, only marginally faster than the ESC/91 from what I can tell. So 10k for 7psi performance, or less than 2k for appox. 5 psi performance with no parasitic loss. Not too mention one method (turbo) has some other headaches and is much harder to service yourself. While the other method (ESC) is very easy to service yourself and is virtually just plug and play.


So that is my smiles for dollar comparison. Yes the E85/turbo setup was awesome. But it overpowered the car greatly. No balance whatsoever. And the cost needed to re-balance the cars performance would be very high. Not too mention the car would become more serious and race dedicated....and lose some fun factor in my opinion. 407whp is FUN, but the novelty wore off pretty fast. Besides when you are chasing power, you can never have enough and can lose a small fortune chasing it. Like I did, I was an addict. Now I have built several cars in the past. Usually it was about just throwing power at the car. Well I am almost 40 now, plus I focus more now on my driving technique since I AX and track regularly. In other words, balance is what I look for in a car.
So take what I say with those thoughts in mind. If all you want is ultimate power (I am over that phase in my life.....I think) then the turbo kit is the way to go. But I still strongly believe that the best bang for buck is this little ESC kit. Does not disturb the balance of the car, and I can use it on the track....or I can remove it in 5 mins so I am STX legal in autocross.


I hope this helps. If you have any other questions, just let me know. I will try to paint the best picture I can.


OFT/OFH/ESC/91 - 210whp+ approx. ( I have no idea really) Edited!
FBM Turbo/91 - 270whp (some lag, pulls harder at upper rpms.)
FBM Tubro/E85 - 407whp (better torque than 91) Note, 1st gear and 2nd gear were pointless. You have to be very judicial with the throttle, or else you would be in trouble real fast. Unlike a turbo Cayman I had, where it could put all the power to the ground with minimal fuss.

[fguadamuz]

Great description. Thanks for the comparisons. @brzaapi

[DAEMANO]

@brzaapi


Epic post! Thanks for your impressions. Great stuff!

[jflogerzi]

@brzaapi that was well said and honest. Your post was exactly what i was hoping to see

[brzaapi]

Please note that I just edited my whp figure for the ESC/91. I meant 240BHP and 210WHP. It is all just estimates anyway, I still have no idea. But regardless the 270whp from the turbo kit is only fully realized way, way up in the rpm range.


Maybe the ESC/E85 can make closer to 240whp....but I have not been to a dyno yet. If I do dyno the car, I will post the results.

[Winjr]

Several months ago I was a test guinea pig for how the ESC will stand up to a collision. In the city, a deer ran out between 2 parked cars and slammed my front passenger side fender. My thoughts, in order:

1) What hit me?
2) Am I ok?
3) Is what hit me ok? (he must have been, because he ran off)
4) What's the damage?
5) Is my ESC still working?

Granted, the controller is located on the opposite side of where I was hit, with lots of shock-absorbing metal in between, but the hit was quite a jolt.

Am happy to report that the ESC took a lickin', but kept on tickin'.

Total damage to the car: $4,400. Ridiculous!

[momo3605]

Hey guys, so this is my first time reading about this kit. I was previously interested in a full blown SC, but this sounds a lot more appealing to me. Problem is, I'm not sure if I need to read through all 375 pages to learn about this kit. I was looking for a shorter thread, but this looks like it! Since the main post hasn't been updated since last year, I was wondering if there are newer versions of the ESC, where you can see the different models how much it costs if pricing has changed (front page hasn't been updated since last year), and where to buy? Thanks!

[Target70]

Originally Posted by momo3605

Hey guys, so this is my first time reading about this kit. I was previously interested in a full blown SC, but this sounds a lot more appealing to me. Problem is, I'm not sure if I need to read through all 375 pages to learn about this kit. I was looking for a shorter thread, but this looks like it! Since the main post hasn't been updated since last year, I was wondering if there are newer versions of the ESC, where you can see the different models how much it costs if pricing has changed (front page hasn't been updated since last year), and where to buy? Thanks!

The price on the first page should still be close to the current actual price. You will be given the actual price plus shipping when you are next in line. The Kit has been modified, it works more or less the same, but the latest tweaks and changes can be found on page 366: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...39719&page=366
The place to get it is to PM Robftss to get your name on the waiting list, This is not exactly a consumer product at this point as tweaks and upgrades continue to be added. This being the case, and with a long list ahead of you, expect a significant wait time, I honestly don't know how long it will be, but I do not expect it to be any sooner than 6 months, and more likely to be longer. Or keep an eye out for a used kit as they have come up they have gone fast.

[continuecrushing]

Originally Posted by momo3605

Hey guys, so this is my first time reading about this kit. I was previously interested in a full blown SC, but this sounds a lot more appealing to me. Problem is, I'm not sure if I need to read through all 375 pages to learn about this kit. I was looking for a shorter thread, but this looks like it! Since the main post hasn't been updated since last year, I was wondering if there are newer versions of the ESC, where you can see the different models how much it costs if pricing has changed (front page hasn't been updated since last year), and where to buy? Thanks!

There are newer versions out, but more along the lines of "kit upgrades"

No official cost, per say...but $1600ish

You can buy it in Narnia. Seriously, there is a wait list right now, and unless you pick one up used you cannot purchase, at the moment. Still in development stage.

Although there are many pages in the thread, take the time to at least read the first one. Lots of info/videos/photos/dyno graphs-it'll get you part way caught up on questions you have.