When the FR-S get a HP increase...

[strat61caster]

That they mucked it up. Seriously, it's a rare feat for automotive manufacturers to make a car 'better' in every aspect on the second generation, something is changed (otherwise it would still be the first) that alienates a not insignificant portion of the original fanbase.

The big thing is weight, I fully expect that a horsepower increase will only come into play as they chuck sound deadening and creature comforts at this thing to draw in the 'average consumer' bumping this car up to $30k and 3,000 lbs. I have not forgotten press releases about Scion 'moving upmarket'.

Just like the 911, MR2, RX-7, Miata, S2000, 240Z, M3, or any other number of sports cars, the first iteration will be the purest, rawest, most enthusiast minded offering. All of the above cars got faster, bigger engines, more amenities, bigger tires, better brakes, more competent suspension, and on and on, but the first generations are held in the highest regard by many for the things that were 'lost' along the way.

Edit: Don't know why I didn't think of it, can we make a subforum for the next generation car? Immediately move all discussions about next year power increases and such over there so I can only enter when I feel the need to pontificate and argue?

[A3r0pusH]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

No idea how old you are but remember the little space ship rides in kiddy land at a fair that had the buzzer when you push a button?
That's it!

No car horn will be as disappointing as the one that came in the E46 M3...may as well had a boy going through puberty yelling.

[LucidMomentum]

Originally Posted by A3r0pusH

No car horn will be as disappointing as the one that came in the E46 M3...may as well had a boy going through puberty yelling.

Ah, the Call of Duty special...

(Also your In-&-Out avatar has me craving a Double Double Animal Style... Should pick one up on the way home from work.)

[DAEMANO]

North American Model Year 2017 Refresh. Rest of world gets some of this in 2016, but the big news will be Scion moving to multiple trim levels per vehicle to improve margins and offer audience features missing from the single model. Base model becomes "Sport" model. "Performance and "Touring" models added to sit above base. Weight remains unchanged in the base model 2700 lbs.

"Sport" (base) model gets:
1. Revised front and rear fascia. Softer edges, no more fangs, less aggressive headlamp shape. More modern treatments all around.
2. Revised HIDs and LED lighting to go with the new bumpers standard
3. No Automatic transmission offered.
4. Max Performance summer tires on revised wheels
5. Cricket-free fuel pump
6. Reduced torque dip
7. 10-15 more HP at the crank (now 210-215 stock)

"Performance" model gets (all Sport model+) +$4-$5k over base
1. More aggressive front and rear fascia than Sport or Touring model
2. UHP Summer tires on +1 wheel upgrade (18")
3. TRD and/or STi BBK
4. OEM Short shifter kit
5. Faux CF trim in cabin
6. Revised steering wheel
7. Shift knob
8. OEM AOS / Catch can
9. OEM Oil cooler
10. 25 more HP at the crank (now 225 stock)
11. Loud paint
12. Badges

"Touring" Model gets + $4k price over base
1. Automatic Transmission only
2. Sound tube delete
3. A LOT of additional sound insulation
4. Leather interior
5. Dual zone climate
6. All Season tires on softer suspension
7. Pearl paint with even more pearl shit
8. Chrome
9. Understeer

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by LucidMomentum

Ah, the Call of Duty special...

(Also your In-&-Out avatar has me craving a Double Double Animal Style... Should pick one up on the way home from work.)

Animal style?

[LucidMomentum]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Animal style?

Catwoman is the only thing remotely animal like I have any attraction to :p

If you've never been there, In-&-Out has a secret code menu of sorts.
It's really awesome.

http://aht.seriouseats.com/archives/...cret-menu.html

[Tenament05]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Animal style?

For our friends up north! Refer to this

http://www.in-n-out.com/menu/not-so-secret-menu.aspx

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Tenament05

For our friends up north! Refer to this

http://www.in-n-out.com/menu/not-so-secret-menu.aspx

Damn, I would not fit in the car in about 2 months!!!!!!!
Not a mystery why there is an obesity issue down there.

[DarkSunrise]

Most likely added weight.

Or for track guys, inadequate brakes or fuel starvation or oil temps.

Power will come with its own set of drawbacks - there will definitely be things to complain about.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

North American Model Year 2017 Refresh. Rest of world gets some of this in 2016, but the big news will be Scion moving to multiple trim levels per vehicle to improve margins and offer audience features missing from the single model. Base model becomes "Sport" model. "Performance and "Touring" models added to sit above base. Weight remains unchanged in the base model 2700 lbs.

"Sport" (base) model gets:
,,,

"Performance" model gets (all Sport model+) +$4-$5k over base
....

"Touring" Model gets + $4k price over base
....

So much scope creep...proving the point above that a lot of times 1st Gen is best.

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

So much scope creep...proving the point above that a lot of times 1st Gen is best.

No doubt 1st gen is best. Still it's the simplest path that addresses all of what that Scion VP recently as well as previous statements from Toyota and Subaru. We get the low cost (pure) entry model that we have today, and two profit churning niche machines. A "ringer" model basically to send to auto journalists for instrumented magazine tests and bench racers, and then also a touring model for those who want an AT and see this more as a GT than a sports car. The major change needed to make this happen are internal directives for Scion to have more than one trim level per vehicle.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

No doubt 1st gen is best. Still it's the simplest path that addresses all of what that Scion VP recently as well as previous statements from Toyota and Subaru. We get the low cost (pure) entry model that we have today, and two profit churning niche machines. A "ringer" model basically to send to auto journalists for instrumented magazine tests and bench racers, and then also a touring model for those who want an AT and see this more as a GT than a sports car. The major change needed to make this happen are internal directives for Scion to have more than one trim level per vehicle.

From a business prospective I understand it. The biggest problem I see as a consumer is that the tiered approach will drive up the price of all models, including the base. I realize to some extent they are already building all these models (minus power increases) so hopefully that impact would be minimal.

One thing I still don't "get" for a car this size is dual climate control. I understand it in my Suburban, where the temp in the passenger seat and the driver's seat can differ by a dozen degrees or more based on the sun or lack of it, but in a car where my 5' 7" pudgy frame can reach over and open the passenger side door, it seems like something completely unnecessary. Just complication and weight for no purpose. Sort of like push button start...

Now, I don't mind they offer it, but my problem with it is when its isn't offered but "standard" which means I'm paying for it even though I don't want it.

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

From a business prospective I understand it. The biggest problem I see as a consumer is that the tiered approach will drive up the price of all models, including the base. I realize to some extent they are already building all these models (minus power increases) so hopefully that impact would be minimal.

One thing I still don't "get" for a car this size is dual climate control. I understand it in my Suburban, where the temp in the passenger seat and the driver's seat can differ by a dozen degrees or more based on the sun or lack of it, but in a car where my 5' 7" pudgy frame can reach over and open the passenger side door, it seems like something completely unnecessary. Just complication and weight for no purpose. Sort of like push button start...

Now, I don't mind they offer it, but my problem with it is when its isn't offered but "standard" which means I'm paying for it even though I don't want it.

Yeah, I don't get dual climate either in this car (other than the switchgear looks more high-end). I got a base FR-S instead of a BRZ for pretty much the same reason.

Hoping that nothing offered in the upcoming refresh increases the base price, but that rarely happens. I want it cheap so I can make it quick in the way I want it quick. 1st gen does this, but for the refresh I'm not holding my breath.

[Braces]

Originally Posted by LucidMomentum

...what will we all complain about next on the forums?

The BOV turbo noise is not loud enough through the sound tube.