I need to lose my car payment.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

Haha maybe You have something against points cards when one doesn't carry a balance ?

Let's just say my Daddy taught me not to play with poisonous snakes. Eventually they will bite you. Not my cup of venon but if it works for you, great.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Let's just say my Daddy taught me not to play with poisonous snakes. Eventually they will bite you. Not my cup of venon but if it works for you, great.

That's a will power and self control issue more than an issue with CCs. Sure, CCs can be an evil son of a bitch, but only in the hands of people who shouldn't be using them. Same argument can be made for a lot of things (like car loans lol).


In the end, I and many others get benefits (1 year extra warranty from Amex on electronics for example, cash back, etc) and if you have the self control to live within your means and pay off the CC each month then there's nothing evil about them. Yes, I realize that my cash back and benefits are coming from income off those who don't live within their means.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

That's a will power and self control issue more than an issue with CCs. Sure, CCs can be an evil son of a bitch, but only in the hands of people who shouldn't be using them. Same argument can be made for a lot of things (like car loans lol).


In the end, I and many others get benefits (1 year extra warranty from Amex on electronics for example, cash back, etc) and if you have the self control to live within your means and pay off the CC each month then there's nothing evil about them. Yes, I realize that my cash back and benefits are coming from income off those who don't live within their means.

My will power and self control says I don't buy anything I can't pay for at the point of purchase. Lots of both in that.

I have nothing against points and those types of benefits and in fact use them, I just do it through debit cards (I never use the PIN function by the way, unless at an ATM getting cash).

I also paid the majority of 12 years worth of High School marching band expenses (including multiple trips to Disney, and even a trip to Ireland) through the use of cash back on gift cards (see shopwithscrip.com).

I just would not choose to do it with a credit card.

[srt4evah]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

My argument was only that using a successful single year (or multiple years) to prove your point does not mean your point applies to everyone. Single years (or multiple years) with losses disprove your point in the same way.

Again, for you and I (and yes, I do own stocks (OK, mutual funds, I do not buy single stocks), do make money on them, and was not asking for a seminar) it is a philosophical discussion about how we prefer to use our assets. I have no problem giving up the money because in the end money isn't really worth anything until you spend it (similar to your argument about loses not being a lose until you sell) and I am obviously more risk adverse than many here.

It's all good either way. Your approach is wrong for me, my approach is wrong for you. I think we can both live with that.

I don't see how stating what I've earned on stocks in the last year disproves my point that I can make more than 1.65% on my investments?

I've done both in the past. I bought an Evo X MR for $35k cash, I bought my SRT-4 for $17k cash (8 years ago), and had I instead simply invested that cash in virtually any decent stock, or fund, it would have been a far more financially sound decision.

Paying cash for cars is not a terrible idea, I'm not against it, but it all depends on how much that particular cash makes up of your net worth. If you have $50k cash and you spend $25k on a car, that's a poor choice versus financing it at 1.65% and investing that $25k cash in any safe or reasonable investment. If you have $500k in cash, paying $25k cash for a car is inconsequential.

As far as credit cards, I exclusively pay for everything with a single credit card, and at the end of every month, I pay off the full balance. Never pay interest, and I get cash back through the points I earn. I don't write checks, use debit cards, or cash.

I let other people's (the bank's) money work for me. The bank can earn 1.65% off my car loan (which is less than the rate of inflation 80% of the time), the bank can pay for my purchases for 29 days per month, and give me cash back whenever I borrow enough of their money. Why use my own money for that when I can use the bank's money, and get cash back from them?

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by srt4evah

I don't see how stating what I've earned on stocks in the last year disproves my point that I can make more than 1.65% on my investments?

I'm just saying it's a selective timeline. There have been plenty of periods of the same length where making the money back would not have been the sure bet you appear to be attempting to make it seem.

If that was not your intent, my apologies.

[Tcoat]

.

[srt4evah]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

I'm just saying it's a selective timeline. There have been plenty of periods of the same length where making the money back would not have been the sure bet you appear to be attempting to make it seem.

If that was not your intent, my apologies.

My intent is only to say I can make more than 1.65% per year with investments.

Hence, financing for 1.65% and investing my available cash is a better proposition, and how I did choose to do it with my ISF and will do the same if/when I buy an FRS.

[stugray]

Originally Posted by PhantomX

Are you getting angry? o.O

I'm pretty sure 401k isn't entirely safe from being taxed. As I recall, it's taxed as a form of income once you retire and start receiving it. There's more to it, but like I said, I'm not interested in being IN this debacle.

"Are you getting angry?"

Absolutely not - why?
401K deposits are 100% tax deductible (as is the company match) until you withdraw it.
It is taken out before taxes are calculated, same as health benefits.
So if the company gives you a match, it is free money and is not taxed until you withdraw it.

Saying it is not free is like saying winning the lottery is not free money.
You still pay taxes on the free money, and there is still some left after you pay the tax.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by stugray

Ok here's another one for you.
I currently put about $1100 per month into my 401K WHILE I am paying 3% financing on my BRZ.

Using your logic, that is Stupid because I should just use that $1100 to pay for the car instead of financing it.

However, that $1100 is matched 50% (so thats $550 in FREE money) by my Employer AND that account has been making me over 30% ROI for the last 10 years.
Which is smarter take that $1100 to pay for may car or finance my car at 3%?

So, I could have saved for about 23 months and had enough to buy the car outright or have: $37950 in my 401K making me 30% while paying 3% on the financing.

Sorry, but if I choose paying outright (at the expense of NOT putting the money in the 401K) then I AM STUPID.

NOBODY in this thread is in favor of diverting retirement funds towards a car, you're arguing a point nobody else is arguing.

[srt4evah]

fwiw, OP hasn't logged on in a week. Perhaps he had to sell his computer too.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

My will power and self control says I don't buy anything I can't pay for at the point of purchase. Lots of both in that.

Semantics at this point. Different piece of plastic with the same result. My Debit cards for my two banks don't get me shit

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by srt4evah

fwiw, OP hasn't logged on in a week. Perhaps he had to sell his computer too.

haha sorry but I had to laugh at that one.. wrong as it may be to do so.

[ckkone]

People defending their car loans.... LOLZ

[stugray]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

NOBODY in this thread is in favor of diverting retirement funds towards a car, you're arguing a point nobody else is arguing.

I was merely pointing out one case where I do not have enough $$ on hand to buy a car outright, so I choose to finance while continuing to deposit MORE than my payment in my retirement account.

ckkone was the one who stated that noone should ever finance a car.
I was pointing out MY situation where I definitely have the money to buy a car outright, but I have more money at the end of the finance period by financing then I would have if I did NOT finance.
As stated above:
If I have $25,000 laying around and I can either put the $25k into an account making 30% ROI and finance the car @ 3% OR I can spend the $25k on the car...... The SMART option is obvious.