FA20 Engine Oiling, Bearings, and Starvation

[D K]

Its difficult for me to relegate the car I drove off the showroom floor into a trailer queen just yet.

I really want to keep the AC for a little while longer, probably only for a few more months until I get a diesel truck.

[EAGLE5]

No argument here on the cost. Really, there's no easy way. A ventilated seat is about $2k, but it least it cools you on the track. A top-end coolsuit is a lot, but you won't wear it on the street. A Prius compressor is probably going to be high-voltage. I'm really not sure why these are all so expensive, though. I can buy a good-sized AC for the home with all the parts for much less money, and the main difference is just an AC vs DC motor. You can always have a one-off for yourself.

[sw20kosh]

Originally Posted by Element Tuning

I feel like the STI stuck with the EJ because of the limits with the oiling system used for the FA currently. I'm sure they'll work it out in time but hopefully they don't just make it adequate for oem power levels.

So other than the oiling issue, the FA20 is tougher than the EJ?

[Element Tuning]

Originally Posted by jsimon7777

No argument here on the cost. Really, there's no easy way. A ventilated seat is about $2k, but it least it cools you on the track. A top-end coolsuit is a lot, but you won't wear it on the street. A Prius compressor is probably going to be high-voltage. I'm really not sure why these are all so expensive, though. I can buy a good-sized AC for the home with all the parts for much less money, and the main difference is just an AC vs DC motor. You can always have a one-off for yourself.

Never understood the AC vs DC cost differences myself either. I think in terms of getting the oil pressure people need was going to lead in two directions, external pump for street guys and full dry sump for racers. Racers can dump the AC and go wit a 3 stage dry sump. Being expensive as that is, they don't need another huge $$$ of money to switch the manifold and all the related issues.

Street guys could run what I have in mind which would be a very affordable extexternal oil pump if willing to ditch the AC. No special sauce Element Tuning motor required (just keep in mind oem rod strength which means you need a built motor anyway). There is the dilema. We can build a motor for our clients with enough oil pressure without any external pump or dry sump and enough power to grenade the transmission. Then there are the people who have contacted us with failed bottom ends on their built motors who would benefit with an external oiling solution.

Unfortunately no black and white answers here. I think at least this thread puts all the facts out there and I thank all the people who have contributed and shared all their pressure data etc. We at least have a "safe" and a "dangerous" window so each person can make an informed decision about their car's needs.

[sw20kosh]

Originally Posted by Element Tuning

Now track cars running 400+ hp will not be able to keep oil temps in the 210-230 F range at all. 260 is going to be realistic for a track car with a cooler so we need that oil pressure in the 85 psi range on the street so we can handle that viscosity drop while racing (we see about 15 psi drop on our STi race engine).

Just a heads up. With 275 whp and the setrab 25 row series 9 core a buddy and I are able to keep oil temps in the 200-215 F range driving hard in 25 min track sessions (80-85 deg F ambient). Will see how it does in 100 F ambient.

10w30

[D K]

Will have custom gears available in approximately 15 weeks.
Not sure of the hp limitations yet, but significantly more than stock.

Would be happy to trade gears for oiling mods or some iteration thereof.

D

Originally Posted by Element Tuning

Never understood the AC vs DC cost differences myself either. I think in terms of getting the oil pressure people need was going to lead in two directions, external pump for street guys and full dry sump for racers. Racers can dump the AC and go wit a 3 stage dry sump. Being expensive as that is, they don't need another huge $$$ of money to switch the manifold and all the related issues.

Street guys could run what I have in mind which would be a very affordable extexternal oil pump if willing to ditch the AC. No special sauce Element Tuning motor required (just keep in mind oem rod strength which means you need a built motor anyway). There is the dilema. We can build a motor for our clients with enough oil pressure without any external pump or dry sump and enough power to grenade the transmission. Then there are the people who have contacted us with failed bottom ends on their built motors who would benefit with an external oiling solution.

Unfortunately no black and white answers here. I think at least this thread puts all the facts out there and I thank all the people who have contributed and shared all their pressure data etc. We at least have a "safe" and a "dangerous" window so each person can make an informed decision about their car's needs.

[D K]

Originally Posted by jsimon7777

A Prius compressor is probably going to be high-voltage.

Probably high current, not high voltage

[blown]

http://www.densomedia-na.com/news/show/id/402

[Rosticles]

Originally Posted by D K

Probably high current, not high voltage

jsimon7777 is correct. Electric and hybrid cars have high voltage electric systems. With high current you would need to have HUGE wiring to get the same job done. You would not be able to utilize these in our cars without stupid electrical work.

I used to design electric cars.

[D K]

The trick is to get a dc compressor instead of an ac one and inverting the voltage.
Danfoss makes one and I have one on my desk, but unfirtunately all the dc circuits on yachts is 24vdc.

Im also considering getting rid of just the condenser and moving it behind the radiatior with dry break fittings.
That way I can yank it out at the trackand still have all that space up front.

[D K]

Of course electric vehicles propulsion systems are high voltage.

I thought you were referring to something different


Im not necessarily looking to move or remove the compressor.
I was only looking into that possibility because I thought it was the easiest.

Originally Posted by Rosticles

jsimon7777 is correct. Electric and hybrid cars have high voltage electric systems. With high current you would need to have HUGE wiring to get the same job done. You would not be able to utilize these in our cars without stupid electrical work.

I used to design electric cars.

[Element Tuning]

Originally Posted by Rosticles

jsimon7777 is correct. Electric and hybrid cars have high voltage electric systems. With high current you would need to have HUGE wiring to get the same job done. You would not be able to utilize these in our cars without stupid electrical work.

I used to design electric cars.

Yeah I looked it up the other day and it runs over 200 volts and requires a ton of electronics. If someone is willing to spend over $1000 to keep their AC then it's easier to drop that coin on moving parts around along with a different intake manifold. Maybe I'll commission someone to make a custom manifold which would work with all the oem fuel rails and related parts. The problem is that most of these guys are not interested in production .

There is a good chance some of the FB stuff swaps over but I haven't been able to confirm. Intake manifold, TGV housings, then deleteting all of that, fuel rails would have to be custom or modified, and then a custom throttle inlet pipe....

[Sellout]

Originally Posted by D K

Im also considering getting rid of just the condenser and moving it behind the radiatior with dry break fittings.
That way I can yank it out at the trackand still have all that space up front.

You don't want the A/C condenser behind the radiator. It needs ambient air to function properly. Hot air through the condenser in a vapor compression refrigeration system will kill everything in the system, given enough time.

[Nigelr32]

A little off topic, but I need to know something please.. With the uprated valve springs in place are you experiencing any excessive rocker wear. I checked my stock springs, and they are around 45lbs at fitted height and 135lbs at 11mm.
Kelford springs run at 68lbs and 166lbs respectively. This seems a big jump for those little rocker assemblies??


Love the thread Phil, great video's too!!