Twins are slow? Not as slow as these cars!

[babydriver]

Thanks to Monogram for the link to FastestLaps.com. I enjoyed comparing the FR-S/BRZ times at "Streets of Willow" to other "fast" cars. The twins bested the times for several well-known sports machines. Shocking in some cases:

Subaru BRZ 1.30.32

Chevrolet Corvette Z06 1.30.35

BMW M5 1.30.40

Porsche 911 Turbo 1.30.69

Mini-Cooper S 1.30.93

Scion FR-S 1.31.15

Ford GT 1.31.57 (This one shocked me the most.)

Tesla Roadster Sport 1.32.10

Acura NSX 1.32.59

Pontiac Solstice 1.35.69

Mazda MX-5 (Miata) 1.35.91

The whole list is here:

<http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/willow_springs_-_streets_of_willow.html>

I guess "fast" depends on whether the road is straight or curved, eh? I suspect that the difference in the BRZ and the FR-S times were due to track conditions/weather on the day the time trial was run.

[2much]

much more intelligent comments below

[mav1178]

As a person who's actually driven at Streets, I can assure you that the times are completely inaccurate for the faster cars.

-alex

[NWFRS]

"I totally smoked a Ford GT the other day..."

[totopo]

No, the times on fastestlaps hammers in the fact that the number one mod by far (even over tires) is driver.

Look at who drove that 1:30 time, randy pobst, a pro driver. If you only look at pro driver times, the twins sit about where you would expect by hp and hp/weight


41. Subaru WRX 1:27.33 '14 272 / 1503 Randy Pobst
47. Ford Mustang EcoBoost 1:27.85 '15 0 / 0 Randy Pobst
50. Ford Focus ST 1:28.40 '12 250 / 1432 Randy Pobst
52. Hyundai Genesis Coupe 3.8 V6 GDI 1:28.71 '12 350 / 1580 Randy Pobst
56. Ford Mustang V6 1:29.09 '11 309 / 1571 Randy Pobst
57. Hyundai Genesis Coupe 2.0 TCI 1:29.12 '12 275 / 1550 Randy Pobst
63. Mazda 3 MPS 1:29.51 '09 260 / 1456 Randy Pobst
65. Subaru BRZ 1:30.32 '12 200 / 1220 Randy Pobst
72. Scion FR-S 1:31.15 '13 200 / 1251 Randy Pobst
74. VW Golf GTI Mk. VI 1:31.47 '09 211 / 1318 Randy Pobst
80. VW Jetta GLI 1:32.53 '11 200 / 1436 Randy Pobst

The original FR-S was balanced more for fun than for track times. It had more of a oversteer bias. I think these fr-s and brz times was on the same day. That might be part of the reason why the fr-s modified its suspension to bring it in line with the brz.

A lot of the times on fastest laps are some random amateur driver because that's the only person who has bothered to time their lap, or some random magazine reviewer.

The second most important issue on fastestlaps that is ignored is tires. That's why basically lap times get better every year. And no matter what people here say, the primacy HP gets pretty decent laps time, comprable to the twins swapped to other UHP tires.

If you look further, when there are multiple times for a car, the pro drivers can beat amateur drivers by like 5 seconds.

4. Chevrolet Corvette Z06 Z07 Package 1:20.43 '11 512 / 1394 Randy Pobst
17. Chevrolet Corvette Z06 Z07 Package 1:24.28 '11 512 / 1394

12. Ford Mustang Shelby GT500 1:23.48 '10 558 / 1712 Randy Pobst
40. Ford Mustang Shelby GT500 1:27.30 '13 659 / 1750 EdMunds InsideLine

VIR:
9. Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 2:52.38 141 '12 588 / 1838 Aaron Link
19. Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 2:57.50 137 '12 588 / 1838 C&D

Big willow:
27. Acura TL Type S 1:36.67 '07 290 / 1666 Keiichi Tsuchiya
29. Shelby GT500 1:36.80 '06 507 / 1807
56. Shelby GT500 Super Snake 1:40.50 '10 760 / 1790

[Tcoat]

I am just absolutely floored that the Solstice is even on that list!
Mind you I would really to see the results if the same guy drove them all.
Also to put it in better perspective the BRZ is at 65 and the FRS at 72 (same driver so WTF?)
The Focus ST kicked our butt at #50 and even the much maligned Genesis coupe beat us at #52.


Shit if I had waited 2 more minutes to post Totopo would have addressed my concerns about the differences.

[babydriver]

Originally Posted by 2much

much more intelligent comments below

Thanks a lot for your insight. It was very helpful.

[funwheeldrive]

Benchracing at its finest.

Instead of bragging about lap speeds, how about people actually drive the car?

[Jesse36m3]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

Benchracing at its finest.

Instead of bragging about lap speeds, how about people actually drive the car?

Benchracing and armchair mechanics.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by totopo

And no matter what people here say, the primacy HP gets pretty decent laps time, comprable to the twins swapped to other UHP tires.

I've seen you repeat this numerous times on this site, but what is your basis for this statement?

The evidence seems overwhelmingly clear that switching even to average MP summer tires makes a notable difference, and to EP summer tires makes a huge difference.

- Sport Auto tested the GT86 at 9:09 s at the Nurburgring on stock Michelin Primacy HP's, and 8:44 s on Bridgestone RE050A's.

- Sport Auto tested the GT86 at 1:21 s at Hockenheimring short on stock Michelin Primacy HP's, and 1:19 s on Bridgestone RE050A's.

- RT tested the FR-S at 1:29 s at Spring Mountain on stock Michelin Primacy HP's, and 1:27 s on D1SS's.

- MT tested the FR-S at 25.8 s on their figure-8 on stock Michelin Primacy HP's, and 25.0 s on ZII's (lateral grip went from 0.93 to 1.01 g).

And so on and so on... If I remember correctly, Edmunds, Consumer Reports and Autoguide did similar tests as well with similar results. Maybe Modified magazine as well. Seems like pretty much everyone has tested this.

[Tromatic]

Don't care. I have a blast every time I take mine down my favorite bit of road.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

Benchracing at its finest.

Instead of bragging about lap speeds, how about people actually drive the car?

Hey, you never know. This info may help me shave a 10th of a second off my 1 1/2 hour commute!

[totopo]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

I've seen you repeat this numerous times on this site, but what is your basis for this statement?

The evidence seems overwhelmingly clear that switching even to average MP summer tires makes a notable difference, and to EP summer tires makes a huge difference.

- Sport Auto tested the GT86 at 9:09 s at the Nurburgring on stock Michelin Primacy HP's, and 8:44 s on Bridgestone RE050A's.

- Sport Auto tested the GT86 at 1:21 s at Hockenheimring short on stock Michelin Primacy HP's, and 1:19 s on Bridgestone RE050A's.

- RT tested the FR-S at 1:29 s at Spring Mountain on stock Michelin Primacy HP's, and 1:27 s on D1SS's.

- MT tested the FR-S at 25.8 s on their figure-8 on stock Michelin Primacy HP's, and 25.0 s on ZII's (lateral grip went from 0.93 to 1.01 g).

And so on and so on... If I remember correctly, Edmunds, Consumer Reports and Autoguide did similar tests as well with similar results. Maybe Modified magazine as well. Seems like pretty much everyone has tested this.

I said compared to other UHP tires. The reason I said that is most of the cars in its class, and most of the ones i posted comes from the factory with OEM UHP tires. So if you want to compare lap times, then the tires in those cars around it driven by pobst are pretty similar. Tire rack swapped the primacy HP's with a UHP tire and basically got the same time. They swapped it to an EP tire and simillary shaved 2 seconds off ~1:30ish

As opposed to say the super cheater viper ACR SRT 10 which came with "OEM" Michelin sport cup tires, which are not streetable.

or that Seat Leon Cupra Nurburgring time with its optional michelin pilot cup 2

I feel like the whole Nurburgring lap time chases has made high end cars come out with ridiculous OEM tires. I'm just waiting for the first manufacturer to claim that Hoosier R7's are the "OEM" tire and that a reasonable EP tire is an "option."

2 seconds to MP on a 1:30 lap is pretty reasonable from a UHP tire. 2 seconds off 1:30 on EP is kind of... Even though the primacy's are rated as a GT summer, they don't do too poorly on the FR-s.

[2much]

Originally Posted by babydriver

Thanks a lot for your insight. It was very helpful.