Why Supercharger??

[Dammod]

Hey everyone,

To all the people who have gone the supercharger route...why? I am just interested to hear.

There seems to be a lot more people in SA going the SC route.
I personally have a feeling its mainly down to good marketing of a few local company's.

Thoughts?

[Ds3ire]

More boost at lower RPM with a supercharger. A turbo has to spin up to speed so you get boost higher in the rev range...
My 2c

[qbzee007]

How about a twin charged option like so.

I wonder how much it would cost locally and the reliability.

i cant find the Youtube link but I remember seeing an Australian one.

That way everyone is happy!

[sav]

Well, RGM got an excellent reputation and you know there is always going to be decent support. If they had gone the turbo route I'm sure most would have been running turbos now and not SC.

As far as I'm concerned they're one of the very few I'd trust to install and support a FI system in SA. Heard of blown motors, crap backup support, zero experience, etc from some of the others. I'm not going to hand R80k over to somebody to "wing it".
Only other one I'd trust is Auto Sound Engineering who's developed their own turbo system. As for the rest - zero chance.

That being said, I also prefer the power delivery of a supercharger, it's very linear with instant throttle response - very much suited to the 86.

[Dammod]

Originally Posted by Ds3ire

More boost at lower RPM with a supercharger. A turbo has to spin up to speed so you get boost higher in the rev range...
My 2c

I feel that was more of an issue with older engine technoligies. With the 86 "turbo lag" is greatly reduced thanks to:
· Higher compression ratio motor

· Dual intake and exhaust active valve control systems, aka vvt;

· Direct and Port Injection;

· Optimal turbo location; and

· Flexibility of turbine housing A/R sizes.


Using these graphs as an example. All I can see is that the SC makes LESS top end power and it takes longer to get to that peak power which makes it look like there is less lag.
I have seen this consistently when comparing various SC and Turbo kits. The turbo always seems to have more area under the curve throughout the rev range and then more at higher RPM's.

Revolution Performance Turbo


Vortech Supercharger


It just seems far more efficient to use a turbo if this is the case. What a lot of these tuners do for the turbo kits is get the turbo to come onto power ASAP. With that in mind, a turbo could quite easily be tuned to have that linear powerband that the supercharger has. The reason this isn't done often is because as I mentioned, people want as much power as possible low down in the rev range.

Originally Posted by sav

Well, RGM got an excellent reputation and you know there is always going to be decent support. If they had gone the turbo route I'm sure most would have been running turbos now and not SC.

As far as I'm concerned they're one of the very few I'd trust to install and support a FI system in SA. Heard of blown motors, crap backup support, zero experience, etc from some of the others. I'm not going to hand R80k over to somebody to "wing it".
Only other one I'd trust is Auto Sound Engineering who's developed their own turbo system. As for the rest - zero chance.

That being said, I also prefer the power delivery of a supercharger, it's very linear with instant throttle response - very much suited to the 86.

I hear what you are saying, RGM is traditionally a SC based company, so it would make sense for them to go that route, especially when taking into account supplier relations etc.

Having said this, at the end of the day is is still a boxer internal combustion engine and a lot of the Subaru shops would feel quite at home with it. Yes, its more complex with its extra set of injectors and high compression. I would personally much rather take my car to a workshop that has been dealing with Subaru motors for years.

I feel that there is this general feeling of anxiety in SA about local companies supporting these cars. If you have a GOOD tuning shop that knows what they are doing, you shouldn't have any issues.

[sav]

There is an old saying "if you want a fast car, buy a fast car".

It might be a case of one shop having ruined it for everybody, still just not a risk I'm willing to take.

I've got a fast car to play with anyway, so no need to ruin the 86.

[MacJunkie]

@Dammond I do think turbo setup on these cars gives better performance, and think the only reason so many people have gone the SC route is because RGM have marketed it really well, and the vortex setup is reliable and again the after market service RGM gives is great.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[wheelhaus]

I'm not terribly familiar with offerings in SA, but in other parts of the world, superchargers are popular for really two reasons, simplicity of installation, and under hood temps are lower. In the US we have a LOT of track junkies, and the turbo guys have a harder time managing heat, melting radiator fans, etc.

TCs are great for overall power, higher power potential, and on the fly boost adjustability, but their drawback is heat and complexity.

SCs are great for simplicity, instant responsiveness, and a little less weight than a turbo. There is also no lag or boost threshold because boost is always there, so the engine feels more linear/predictable at partial throttle and on/off throttle. SC drawback is mainly less adjustability on the fly.

Twin screw style SCs squish air into the engine by physical compression, they offer the biggest gains at low/mid RPM. Centrifugal SCs use an impeller like a turbo, so they're very efficient, but the power curve rises linearly with RPM so they are most effective at high RPM.

[sav]

Originally Posted by wheelhaus

I'm not terribly familiar with offerings in SA, but in other parts of the world, superchargers are popular for really two reasons, simplicity of installation, and under hood temps are lower. In the US we have a LOT of track junkies, and the turbo guys have a harder time managing heat, melting radiator fans, etc.

TCs are great for overall power, higher power potential, and on the fly boost adjustability, but their drawback is heat and complexity.

SCs are great for simplicity, instant responsiveness, and a little less weight than a turbo. There is also no lag or boost threshold because boost is always there, so the engine feels more linear/predictable at partial throttle and on/off throttle. SC drawback is mainly less adjustability on the fly.

Twin screw style SCs squish air into the engine by physical compression, they offer the biggest gains at low/mid RPM. Centrifugal SCs use an impeller like a turbo, so they're very efficient, but the power curve rises linearly with RPM so they are most effective at high RPM.

Nice post, thanks. The only credible SC installer we've got in SA is RGM Motorsport. They only do Vortech.

[Dammod]

Originally Posted by MacJunkie

@Dammond I do think turbo setup on these cars gives better performance, and think the only reason so many people have gone the SC route is because RGM have marketed it really well, and the vortex setup is reliable and again the after market service RGM gives is great.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I tend to agree with you MacJunkie....

Originally Posted by wheelhaus

I'm not terribly familiar with offerings in SA, but in other parts of the world, superchargers are popular for really two reasons, simplicity of installation, and under hood temps are lower. In the US we have a LOT of track junkies, and the turbo guys have a harder time managing heat, melting radiator fans, etc.

TCs are great for overall power, higher power potential, and on the fly boost adjustability, but their drawback is heat and complexity.

SCs are great for simplicity, instant responsiveness, and a little less weight than a turbo. There is also no lag or boost threshold because boost is always there, so the engine feels more linear/predictable at partial throttle and on/off throttle. SC drawback is mainly less adjustability on the fly.

Twin screw style SCs squish air into the engine by physical compression, they offer the biggest gains at low/mid RPM. Centrifugal SCs use an impeller like a turbo, so they're very efficient, but the power curve rises linearly with RPM so they are most effective at high RPM.

Nice, informative post, some good points.



I don't like the idea of parasitic loss due to a SC...there is something about a turbo and the way that it uses exhaust gasses (that would otherwise simply be expelled) to make more power. I also like the idea of being able to drive out of boost, hence turbos generally being able to get better fuel consumption then SC's.

Depending on the kit you choose and the precautions you take, heat issues can be minimized with turbo setups as well.

Each to their own however, thanks to all for the input.

[Dammod]

Originally Posted by sav

Nice post, thanks. The only credible SC installer we've got in SA is RGM Motorsport. They only do Vortech.

Yeah, and RMS cant tune and need to use tunes from international companies and RGM uses Unichip.
Does RGM offer a non-piggy back option out of interest?

[sav]

Originally Posted by Dammod

Yeah, and RMS cant tune and need to use tunes from international companies and RGM uses Unichip.
Does RGM offer a non-piggy back option out of interest?

Only Unichip as far as I know. I'm sure the Vortech/Unichip combo is by far not the best SC solution but RGM's got the experience and support behind them. I have also not heard of their system or advice blowing any engines up.

[Ryan86]

Originally Posted by Dammod

Yeah, and RMS cant tune and need to use tunes from international companies and RGM uses Unichip.
Does RGM offer a non-piggy back option out of interest?

What do you believe is the best option?

[Dammod]

Originally Posted by sav

Only Unichip as far as I know. I'm sure the Vortech/Unichip combo is by far not the best SC solution but RGM's got the experience and support behind them. I have also not heard of their system or advice blowing any engines up.

Cool was just interested, thanks Sav.