Brembo Race System?

[Fastbrz]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

355x32 is what was determined to be the equilibrium point for this car with stock power in a race.

Short hot lapping sessions will not be as hard on the brakes as a race, and street/canyoning (short of something like Pike's Peak) will not be as hard on the brakes either.

As a data point, the AP Racing Endurance kit is *not* enough braking capacity for me to run a 20 lap spring race with street tires on a stock car... How many people here are actually racing?

I'm actually working on a functional rocket bunny kit. unfortunately I went with the AP Sprint bbk kit

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Fastbrz

I'm actually working on a functional rocket bunny kit. unfortunately I went with the AP Sprint bbk kit

Those words are mutually exclusive...

[Fastbrz]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Those words are mutually exclusive...

Element has a functional wide body car.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Fastbrz

Element has a functional wide body car.

Widebody =/= rocket bunny. Are you doing rocket bunny or Element's setup?

[FRSRAVEN]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

As a data point, the AP Racing Endurance kit is *not* enough braking capacity for me to run a 20 lap spring race with street tires on a stock car... How many people here are actually racing?

What kind of pads were you running? The AP Racing "endurance" kit is a lot of brake for a 2700lb car. I've seen bigger/faster cars function with less on a track...the caveat is they were using full race compound pads.

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Those words are mutually exclusive...

Agreed.

- Andy

[Hoosier Daddy]

Who is Element and what does that have to do with Brembo Race System or Club Racing brake upgrades?

[Fastbrz]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Widebody =/= rocket bunny. Are you doing rocket bunny or Element's setup?

It's a rocket bunny car with a similar setup to element's car. Built block, sparco EVO seats, gtx 2867 turbo, Cusco diff, rear seat delete, Tarmac 2 coilovers, AP sprint BBK kit, apr wing, custom designed aero, 5 point harness, harness bar, and some small susoension components.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by FRSRAVEN

What kind of pads were you running? The AP Racing "endurance" kit is a lot of brake for a 2700lb car. I've seen bigger/faster cars function with less on a track...the caveat is they were using full race compound pads.

We're using race compounds.

Small gains in lap times result in exponential increases in wear and heat.

[Hoosier Daddy]

Well, Race Technologies got a call!

p/n left xb1.e7.23 and right xb1.e7.24.

Out of the Brembo catalog these have an msrp of $850 each. These are racing, or more correctly TRACK DAY, calipers as the cost savings are in the production of 2-piece castings vs 1-piece forges or billets and Fe inserts instead of Ti. For reference, the cheaper of the two F3 4 piston calipers msrp at around $950. The biggest downside is the lack of any bridging which will reduce the calipers torsional stiffness vs with a bridge. The question is it enough to have any performance impact; The AP kits by Essex only have a single bar bridge.

Info is top of pg 24 in this doc: http://www.brembo.com/it/Auto/Racing...MBO_RACING.pdf

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by Hoosier Daddy

Well, Race Technologies got a call!

p/n left xb1.e7.23 and right xb1.e7.24.

Out of the Brembo catalog these have an msrp of $850 each. These are racing, or more correctly TRACK DAY, calipers as the cost savings are in the production of 2-piece castings vs 1-piece forges or billets and Fe inserts instead of Ti. For reference, the cheaper of the two F3 4 piston calipers msrp at around $950. The biggest downside is the lack of any bridging which will reduce the calipers torsional stiffness vs with a bridge. The question is it enough to have any performance impact; The AP kits by Essex only have a single bar bridge.

Info is top of pg 24 in this doc: http://www.brembo.com/it/Auto/Racing...MBO_RACING.pdf

That's a fun catalog to look through.

The lack of a bridge is concerning but I don't know enough to say if it will be felt. Maybe the caliper is just that strong.

With the piston sizes listed in the catalog and 355mm discs, you'll have a pretty decent frontward shift in brake bias. I'd go smaller than 355 if you could, or add a rear kit. But assuming you're running hoosiers, it may be an acceptable tradeoff to get the fade resistance you need.

- Andy

[Hoosier Daddy]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

That's a fun catalog to look through.

The lack of a bridge is concerning but I don't know enough to say if it will be felt. Maybe the caliper is just that strong.

With the piston sizes listed in the catalog and 355mm discs, you'll have a pretty decent frontward shift in brake bias. I'd go smaller than 355 if you could, or add a rear kit. But assuming you're running hoosiers, it may be an acceptable tradeoff to get the fade resistance you need.

- Andy

It's only a concern if it does have significant deflection. I have history with the old 4 and 6 piston NASCAR intermediate Brembo calipers that had no bridge...The only problem we ever had was a clip failure one time where the pads flew out on a pit stop - same issue could happen with these Club Racing kits. I bet Hayworth might have some data on the old NASCAR intermediate calipers vs the new bridged versions. I have seen test data on their RC calipers, so it could be out there... Might not be 1:1 comparison with the Club Racing calipers but could be a rough way to gauge the importance.

Rear upgrade easily solves the balance problem. The two piston rears available in the Brembo catalog have the same mounting offsets as the production 2 pistons that are on the WRX Stis (28 mm) - choose your bore (36, 38, 40, and 42 mm). They are less than $300 each. And rotors are cheap! BTW, who builds a 'race car' without a bias adjuster?

EDIT: the rears are 500 each...

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Hoosier Daddy

Well, Race Technologies got a call!

p/n left xb1.e7.23 and right xb1.e7.24.

Out of the Brembo catalog these have an msrp of $850 each. These are racing, or more correctly TRACK DAY, calipers as the cost savings are in the production of 2-piece castings vs 1-piece forges or billets and Fe inserts instead of Ti. For reference, the cheaper of the two F3 4 piston calipers msrp at around $950. The biggest downside is the lack of any bridging which will reduce the calipers torsional stiffness vs with a bridge. The question is it enough to have any performance impact; The AP kits by Essex only have a single bar bridge.

Info is top of pg 24 in this doc: http://www.brembo.com/it/Auto/Racing...MBO_RACING.pdf

Funny, I'm having lunch with the friction engineer tomorrow...

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by Hoosier Daddy

It's only a concern if it does have significant deflection. I have history with the old 4 and 6 piston NASCAR intermediate Brembo calipers that had no bridge...The only problem we ever had was a clip failure one time where the pads flew out on a pit stop - same issue could happen with these Club Racing kits. I bet Hayworth might have some data on the old NASCAR intermediate calipers vs the new bridged versions. I have seen test data on their RC calipers, so it could be out there... Might not be 1:1 comparison with the Club Racing calipers but could be a rough way to gauge the importance.

Rear upgrade easily solves the balance problem. The two piston rears available in the Brembo catalog have the same mounting offsets as the production 2 pistons that are on the WRX Stis (28 mm) - choose your bore (36, 38, 40, and 42 mm). They are less than $300 each. And rotors are cheap! BTW, who builds a 'race car' without a bias adjuster?

EDIT: the rears are 500 each...

Cool, wasn't sure how serious your build will be.

Seems like you've got a good background already with brakes and specifically brembo. Please keep us posted on what you end up with!

- Andy